IH vs. CCC tractors and implements

[gcoleman]

Ok guys, we now have a thread to openly discuss the pros, cons, differences, advantages, disadvantages...you know the drill.
Personally Im not a fan of the CCC lawn tractors, every 1330 and related vertical shaft belt driven hydros have been severely overpriced and under-produced, they are fantastic when new, I will admit, but, they cant and dont hold a candle to even a well worn and tired IH cub cadet, I dont have much experience with the newer CCC garden tractors, but Ive only heard good things about the SGT's and that family of tractors, I personally like the electric rear PTO and factory CAT 0 3 point, but Im curious why IH or CCC didnt offer more than dual hyros unlike the green H3 machines of the same era?

 

[dfrisk]

GLEN - I'd say 50% of the full size ag tractors made during the time of the 140H3 only had single hyd. remotes plus the 3-point, and the rest had double remotes. So why three on a lawn tractor? IH led the industry back in '55 with the three valve hyd. system on the 300/400 models. Our 4010 JD built in '63 only had single remote plus 3-point which we only used with a long lift rod to raise/lower the left side of the frt mounted cultivator. It was real handy to climb over to get on/off the tractor all the time. Just in the right place to trip you so you fell head-first into the cultivator.

IMO, IH did it right, controlling tractor mounted attachments with the standard center mounted rockshaft so the attachments fit both hyd equipped tractors and manual lift tractors. Have you priced a hyd lift & angle blade for a green tractor lately? They sell for about the same price as most tractors.

Sorry I don;t know anything about the newer CC's built since about 1990. I haven't been able to wear out my 40-45 yr old CC's. Last company I worked for three guys had just bought new Simplicity lawn tractors all 17 to 20+ HP when I started there. When I left nine years later they had all sold or traded them on newer models. I guess that's why I keep my old iron.

 

[rmcshane]

I will say one thing for CCC. I just recently picked up a 2135 lawn tractor for free. First glance at it, I didnt really think it was worth much, but I got to looking at it, and I couldnt believe it was a shaft drive! It had around 6 to 700 hours on it before the pto clutch bearing went out of it (that was the reason it was free). The 12.5 horse Kohler runs excellent, and runs just as good as any other cast iron Kohler I had. The controls are readily available to the operator, has a foot hydro, which I personally like. I realize that theres some good ones and some bad ones, but I personally dont mind this older CCC model. Heck, the pto clutch still engaged/disengaged before I took it apart to remove the non-removeable bearing! The dealer can take that $300 pto clutch and put it where the sun dont shine, i got a bearing for the clutch for $12.

With 22 Cub Cadets in the shed running, driving, mowing, and doing whatever a wild hearted 20 year old will put them through, I know my stuff. And Ill say good things about a 2135 any day, especially knowing the previous owner of this model. Sometimes you just got to take a different look at things.

 

[gcoleman]

Ryan, I agree, however as a fellow wild hearted 20 year old, I'm jealous that I only have one cub cadet, I too like the foot control setup, both rocker pedal and twin side by sides, but dash drive is fine for me since I dont have a loader and dont want to go to the trouble to convert my 149. Id like to try out one of the YANMAR/Cub Cadet compacts

 

[rmcshane]

Glen-I agree. I think that one of the new Cub Cadet compacts would be a very sweet ride. So much more uses!

I once had a neighbor who had a yanmar tractor. She used to bring it up the road every time she bought a load of hay from us. She would pull a small load of hay (say 60 bales) home, which was around 10 miles and that little tractor pulled it with ease. Those yanmar diesels are very neat IMHO. That tractor couldnt have been 20 hp. And it was so small, I bet it didnt weigh more than a 4 door Ford Contour. I was impressed with it.

 

[gcoleman]

Small diesels in general impress me, like the small 100 series perkins, only a fifteen hp twin cyl diesel runs circles around its gas counterpart, theyre quieter (unless you turbo and add a straight exhaust) and much much more fuel efficient, probably because of the low RPM operating range, which is also why they pull so well, theyre torque monsters. I wonder what a K series diesel wouldve been like.

 

[dfrisk]

GLEN - I know Kohler has been woring on diesel engines for a long long time. But they're showing THIS on their website. Just a bit big for a CC, a N/A twin would be about right for a SGT.
http://www.kohlernewproject.com/wp-content/themes/kohler/pdf/KDI_brochure_low.pdf

They missed the boat IMO by not offering an air cooled engine. Duetz makes little 2 & 3 cylinder air cooled diesels, even 4's & 6's with turbo's. Great engines, very very fuel efficient. Their cooling fans were co-axial and very efficient, think of a belt-driven turbine engine blowing cool air over a cylinder block & heads with 2-3 times as many fins as on a Kohler K-series.

 

[aschumacher]

Dennis, thats something neat and different. Does it seem its being developed somewhere over seas, I noticed some British words and all metric measurements.

 

[jdiederichs]

A few years ago, Kohler bought the Italian engine maker Lombardini. They offer a line of air cooled and liquid cooled diesels. The prior versions of the smaller liquid cooled diesels are/were indirect injection engines. These new ones differ in that they follow more current design, common rail direct injection and use the turbo as a means to clean emissions as much as make power. You can Google the Lombardini name and check out their website. Be sure to look at the Yanmar engines site as well. The babay Perkins/Cats are actually Shibura diesels; they make the compact diesel line for New Holland.

 

[gcoleman]

Dennis, very interesting. Ive actually never seen an air cooled diesel that isnt a HATZ style pull start one lunger. I cant help but wonder why a diesel block is so much taller than a gas engine, or at least looks taller? I bet I could stuff one in my 149 frame without too many mods aside from the engine mounts, I bet I could even rig up something to keep the mechanical PTO functioning like it was a factory engine...THAT would be cool. The SGT's are catching my eye more and more, I think once I hit the lottery Ill get something like a 1772 diesel and turbo it similar to a forum members former rig: Fellows name is Travis, heres the page:
https://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/messages/22774/191967.html?1276032178

 

[dtanner]

Glen M. Coleman

The tallnes of the diesel is for the long stroke witch gives you all that torque. My 1512 runs so smooth And sipps fuel. I would like to add a turbo some day. I think it would add bags of power and torque. later Don T

 

[sblunier]

Glen,

Mike Masheris and Chris Engelking are the current owners of the Smart car diesel SGT's. Chris actually has Travis's old one.

I've plowed with it.....I got out of it when the boost gauge hit 12# and the pyro was heading for 1200 deg F....but man what a horse!!!..and fun to drive (mainly because it sounds COOL...nice straight pipe whistle!!!)

 

[bnolte]

This might be a little OT, but about 20 years ago I had a gig maintaining rental generators for an Aggreko dealer. Most of the generators in the 30-150 KW class were powered by the Lombardini Diesels. Seemed to be easy starting and clean burning engines, compared to the Cummins and Caterpillar engines in the 200KW and up generators. The bigger Cummins and the Cats did have the advantage of massive rotational mass, which let them deal with larger peak loads better than the Lombardinis. They positively impressed me, despite coming from the land of FIAT.