Double trouble?

[mgreiner]

Hello all, new here and hoping someone can help. Picked up a 1210 Hydro for free but with issues. Appeared to have a blown head gasket but upon taking it apart found that the head had melted in a small area causing it to leak. Replaced head and fixed hole in blower housing, (was told that caused the head problem) and got it started. Now it has two other issues that I can't seem to figure out, one the throttle is ultra sensitive, a slight movement goes from idle to screaming rpms and two the hydrostatic trans works fine at idle but as soon as the rpms increase it stops working? Any advise would be appreciated! I'm thinking now that this is probably why it was free.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Welcome Mel.

Is there a way that you can check the oil in your hydro transmission? I'd check that first or if it has a filter then I'd try changing oil and filter in the hydro. Pleae keep us posted. Someone else will have to help on the engine.

 

[jdiederichs]

It sounds like the governor adjustment is off which would cause the wild rpm swings. To adjust in a brief message:
>loosen gov. arm thru bolt where arm is attached to gov. shaft. Rotate the shaft counter-clockwise. While doing that hold the throttle to the wide open position and tighten the gov. arm thru bolt.

> hydro sluggish often a result of filter needing a change, or contaminated fluid. Remove dipstick for trans oil and look for signs of water; foamy tan color etc.

 

[jharder]

jdiederichs,
I ask the same question on the main fourm about my 782 but to no response. I have done all that to mine with the governor and still it goes wild.

 

[mgreiner]

I've been told after market hyd. oil works fine, what would you recommend?

 

[jharder]

Mel,
I only use hytran in mine fpr two reasons. The first being we usally have around 70 gal on hand at all times for r farm tractors. second being that what it calls for and I feel it has the best water absorbing . Which if your going to use it in the winter that what ya need. Just my 2.5 cents worth. Jim

 

[jdiederichs]

Jim H. If you have adjusted the governor per the manual and still have one that is acting up, two problems come to mind.

One is that the KT17 and Magnums occasionally see a tight governor shaft condition. This is due to several factors, but can often be resolved with a spray of a good penetrant like PB Blaster.Spray the shaft where it exits the engine while moving the governor shaft (engine not running)Sounds too simple to be true, but it actually has helped many of these engines.

The assembly lube used on the governor shaft eventually becomes dry and hardens enough to create the condition you describe.

The second scenario is much less desirable, that is the "soon to be" failure of the governor assembly itself. Awhile ago I discussed the governor gear droping off of the supporting shaft and falling into the running engine. This may cause serious damage to the engine. Repairs involve a complete engine teardown.

 

[jdiederichs]

Jim,

To detail the tight governor issue further, since the assembly lube is known to harden and cause the shaft to require more force to move it, the spring has to pull harder. What then happens is the tight shaft suddenly yields resulting in a "light switch" like governor, either "on or off" idle because nothing moves smoothly. Soak it well with a good penetrating oil, not WD-40 but a real penetrant like PB Blaster or something of that nature. This tip has correctd many of KT/Magnum governor issues.

 

[dtanner]

Jim Diederichs

I bet some diesel fuel would clean up that hard grease on the shaft to the govenor.I wanted to help; but only knew about the single cylinder govenors.
I would like to know if you need to take the engine all apart to replace the governor on the twin`s ? I have done a few 12 and 14 k buy just removing the oil pan !

Had my 1512 diesel out to blade the drive; We had 8" and then 10 hrs of rain. So I just had slush to push off the paved drive. Power angle is a BIG plus .

 

[jdiederichs]

Donald,

I wish the twins Magnums and KT had a removable oil pan, but no such luck. Getting to the governor is quite involved, as Jeremiah can attest. I am hopeful that won't be necessary for Jim H. Good suggestion on the diesel fuel, that'll work too if you have some

 

[jharder]

Jdiederichs,
Thanks for the advice. Jim

 

[mgreiner]

Filter was kinda heavy even after I drained it, looked like original equip. Had a heck of a time getting it off. Removed the rear cover and there appeared to be water and gobs of sludge in the base. Cleaned the base out, made a new gasket and closed her back up. Put on new filter and will refill and give her a go tomorrow morning. Let you all know how I made out, thanks for your suggestions!

 

[mgreiner]

Well guys, I'd like to thank all of you for your help! Changing the hydro oil and filter not only cured the movement problem but also stopped the erratic escalating rpm issue! Evidently because the hydro unit was kicking out it must have allowed the throttle to jump up. Thanks again to all you experts, you're #1 in my book!

 

[jdiederichs]

 

[mhomrighausen]

THAT means a LOT to hear that Mel. The other guys are the experts. Myself... I just hang out here...

 

[jharder]

jdiederichs,
I have spent all afternoon trying to get that governor. Here where im at.1st I took arm clear off the gov shaft. Sprayed pb blaster amd worked and worked the gov shaft nice and free. Put the arm back adjust it by the book arm wont move.Bump the arm it will spin on the shaft then the shaft will turn. but then its not adjusted right. Dose that sound like its gotta come down? Thanks Jim

 

[jchamberlin]

Jim Harder: It sounds to me like the governor actuating mechanism might be binding. I would offer you a picture of the governor in my Magnum 18, but it was destroyed. I'm posting a picture of the governor from a single-cylinder Kohler, as I believe the design is similar. On the KT-17 and M-18 motors the gear is mounted on a horizontal axis. The gear on the governor engages the same gear that drives the cam, so that as the engine speed increases the weights fly out a little more. as the weights fly out, they push a central pin against a "flag" on the bottom of the governor shaft. The "flag" is known to work loose and cause problems. Adjusting the governor means making sure that the "flag" is tight up against the pin and the weights are fully collapsed when the governor is at rest. Again, a loose "flag" messes up the adjustment/operation. I find it difficult to describe the whole thing, but once you see it installed it all makes sense.

Yes, you have to tear everything down to get to it on an KT-17 or M-18.

Another Cub Cadet owner (who posted the picture above) described the governor's action as follows (I failed to include a citation in my notes):

<<Begin Quote>>
Fred, the governor is fairly simple. Inside the engine is a governor gear.

On the gear are two square metal weights attached to a small rod protruding from the center of the gear. As the engine speeds up, the weights fly further from the home position on the gear. As the weights move away from the gear, they force the rod to protrude even further from the gear.

So far then - faster speed = further push of the rod from the gov gear.

Now the gov rod pushes against a flat metal tab on the gov shaft.

So now the faster the engine goes - the further the weights fly - the further the rod protrudes from the gov gear and the further the rod pushes the flat tab on the gov shaft which then rotates the gov arm. The gov shaft protrudes thru the block and attaches to the gov arm.

When the gov shaft rotates, it "pulls back" on the throttle with just enough force until a tug of war contest is equalized between the gov arm and spring tension applied to the gov spring by the throttle lever.

If you unclamp the gov arm from the gov shaft, the gov shaft should only rotate about 1/8th turn AT THE MOST. If you unclamp the gov arm from the shaft, you will need to follow the procedure to reset the arm on the shaft. This is outlined in the Kohler service manual.

Gov gears break.
Weights break off the gov gear.
Tabs break off the gov shaft.

Any one of these could be your problem. Manually turning the gov shaft after taking off the gov arm will tell you if you have internal gov mechanism parts damage.

Good luck on your hunt

Chuck
<<End Quote>>

 

[jharder]

To all that has helped.
I got the gov to work like it should but to tell you all how i fixed it I dont know. I put a new throttle spring on a new throttle rod a brand new carb and a differant gov arm. Now it runs just fine.Thanks again Jim

 

[jchamberlin]

Jim: I'm glad it worked out!