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582 plow tractor

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jstertz

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joshua donald stertz
I know that I could post this on the main board since this is an IH made tractor but it has a later model Briggs I/C 18hp motor. I don't want to incite the wrath of the correct police
correct%20police.gif


So---my question is, do you guys have experience with the fuel pump/carb on these engines? This one has the vacuum operated fuel pump attached to the main body of the carb. I started the engine today with dumping a little fuel in the carb with the air cleaner off. If I kept adding a squirt of fuel, it would keep running. However, if I let it alone, it would starve for fuel and die in about 4 seconds. Could be the pump but I'm not sure how to test since it isn't separate. Could be a gummed up carb since the PO said that it sat for about a year without running.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or help...
 

digger

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And yes it belongs on the main forum board.
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sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
I've rebuild 2 of the Briggs twin carbs (16hp).

Buy the carb kit and the Briggs manual (271172) then go to town.

Not too bad of a rebuild, but a little dicey with the vacuum pump springs.
 

dkline

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Daniel J. Kline
I have just bought my first Cub, the 582. I went to the main board but they said I belonged here.
Mine runs great, but has a very loud muffler, and has been worked on by a cheapskate.
Model 582 142 U
Serial 700184
The official serial keepers say this one was made in the new era.
It has the opposing twin Briggs 16 HP.
It has wheel weights
It has a winch driven 3-point pull/lift system
I will try to get pictures figured out after Christmas.
I will be following this thread.
I do urban farming in Richmond, VA and need this tractor to drag and pull and lift. It has no attachments.
Must change out front tire, and two spares came mounted on wheels. Can I do this myself, or do I need a shop to change tires?
Also, I hope to change engine oil. What oil should it use?
And when I check the transmission, it may call for a change out. This seems to be the standard three gear tranny.
Thanks for your help
 

dschwandt

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David Schwandt
Daniel.
You can change tires yourself provided you can get the bead broke on the existing ones. That is really tough sometimes when they are rusted to the rims. I usually run them up to the local shop and have them dismount them in that case.

You will need a pair of small "tire spoons" to make the job easier as opposed to screwdrivers, especially if you are using tubes. If you have nice restored painted up rims, mount them from the back side to avoid screwing up the fresh paint. They will usually mount up pretty easy w/a good slobering of soap.

It helps to have an assistant also, lay 'em flat on your workbench and use an old piece of carpet or rug underneath to keep them from moving around so much.

I use just plain old 30 weight in all my Kohlers.
A factory service and or owners manual would be a good investment for your Cub. Lots of info in there.

Good luck and welcome to the party!!
 

eford

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Earl Ford
I don't think you'll have to worry about cold weather so straight 30w is fine, personal preference on conventional or synthetic. I don't like pensoil though. Too dirty for me. The 3 point intrigues me. So far you have a good little machine here and can use a multitude of attachments especially if you have a sleeve hitch adapter.
Rear grader blade, cultivator, turning plow, etc. That twin should help with power too!
 

mhomrighausen

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Marlin Homrighausen
Daniel K. My neighbor got a 582 this spring and loves it. It's one of the red Cub Cadets that I wouldn't mind owning one day.
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jstertz

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joshua donald stertz
Well--after the long cold winter, I finally got to working on the "FIVE". I took apart the pump and rebuilt it then adjusted the carb and got to drive it around the yard. It is going to need some more carb tweaking but I think overall that it is a decent runner. My long term plans with this tractor is to find a parts 1811ish tractor and get a Cat 0 setup from it, then install the hydraulic lift system from it and build my 582 into my regular plow rig. The boys are getting older and they want to use theirs at plow days. Time for me to build my own! I've got several big projects to do before that happens and so it may be a couple of years but I'll get to it eventually. It's fun having a "red" GD!
 

nbextermueller

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Nic Bextermueller
Joshua,

How to you plan to adapt the hydraulic lift system from a hydro tractor like an 1811 into a GD tractor? The hydraulics on a hydro are driven by the same pump that drives the wheels.

Are you going to run an "external" pump to move fluid around?

I am genuinely curious about this. I want to put hydraulics on my 128, but have never really looked into how to power them. With the 128 I have considered using a NF hydraulic pump because it would look more "natural". By the 82 series has side panels and is much to clean to hang a random pump off the side.
 

sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Pump off of the PTO or clutch driver is the only way to have "live" hydraulics......anything after the clutch would be a PITA to use.

It can be done with an external pump, but make sure you add a valve with a relief (Cub Cadet valves did not have them as they were built into the hydro)....otherwise the system is deadheaded all of the time....BAD
 

nbextermueller

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Nic Bextermueller
Steve,

do you know if a narrow frame hydraulic lift pump is already set to the proper pressure and have a relief valve? Is the NF spool valve built into that pump or is it "remote" but just bolted to the same assembly? For my 128, Ideally I would want to utilize the proper WF hydro lift handle and spool valve in the dash. Just for proper looks.

Technically the front PTO basket on the 128 has a large pulley that would fit a small belt. I could run a pump off it, but was afraid it's large size would turn the pump too slow.

I planned to use the belt area on the clutch plate hub on the back if the engine like the NF does. On an 82 series the PTO is not an option because of the electric PTO in the way and far to little room behind that big old twin...

I saw a picture, just one time, of someone running a jack shaft through the tunnel that ran a pulley off the drive hub and a direct coupler into a pump under the fenders and used the rearand as the reservoir. But I was unsure if he was using a self priming pump.

I was genius! but I didn't see a relief valve in the system and unsure what his operating pressure was. Again, I only saw 1 picture and forgot to save it.
 

sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Nic,

Narrow frame unit is self contained, valve, relief, pump, etc all in one unit.

Typically the relief valves are built into the spool valve.

The 12hp drive coupler would allow a pump to be driven off the front of the clutch driver via belt. Match pulley sizes, as pumps are designed to run to run at up to 3600 rpm typically, 3-4 GPM @3600 rpm is plenty for simple lift.

Big pulleys driving little pulleys results in a speed increase of the driven pulley, little driving big the opposite. In the case of a narrow frame hyd. lift, the lift unit is turning ~1000 rpm when the engine is at 3600 rpm (assuming the driven pulley is ~ 3x larger than the clutch driver).

Research "open center hydraulic circuits" for more info on how to set one up with components. Cub cadets and most smaller farm tractors use open center hydraulics (oil always flows through the system at low pressure until redirected to do work and pressure builds....eventually to relief pressure).
 

nbextermueller

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Nic Bextermueller
This is similar to what I saw last time. I found this on a quick google search. It doesn't show all the parts and this person's profile where I found it is not available anymore...

315097.jpg
 

sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
That's an 82 series frame.....
 

jstertz

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joshua donald stertz
Wow! Lots of conversation on this while I was busy. Nic--what I generally had in mind at this point was a vintage power steering pump from a 1990's GM vehicle. Obviously it will be important for me to incorporate a relief in the system. My uncle Roger has a fair amount of experience with hydraulics (even built his own zero turn at one point!). And so I'm planning on leaning on him to guide me through the functionality process. I've heard that guys have used PS pumps with success. I like the fact that they have their own reservoir. I also like steves idea to run a belt from the PTO to the ps pump pulley. The fact that the tractor will be a dedicated Plow tractor means that I don't need to keep the PTO free for a mower or blower.

I'm certainly appreciative of any thoughts pro or con that you guys may have concerning this setup. Obviously if any of you have done this exact thing, please weigh in. I don't need to "reinvent the wheel"!!!

Thanks Steve for all you thoughts and advice here.

Nic--I'd look really close at adding a NF lift to your 128. Methinks that would be "fairly" simple to do with the open engine design. Obviously you'd have to science out and fabricate a bracket to hold it but your engine should even have the drive pulley on the flywheel side of the motor...
 

sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
128 hyd cylinder mount may be in the way of the belt to a narrow frame hyd. unit......

Reservoir isn't any issue when you have a rear end full of oil....fitting on the shift cover for the return and a fitting in the drain for supply....added benefit is "pressure splash lube" to the tranny top shaft!

Easiest way to add a relief valve would be to swap in a different spool valve under the dash that incorporates a relief....BTDT, not hard at all, especially on a 128, lots of room to work.
 

sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
315115.jpg


149 with dual hyd valve (notice relief on the side of the valve body). I salvaged the valve for the dual hyd. mod.....
 

jstertz

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joshua donald stertz
I haven’t done a whole lot with this tractor as I have been biding my time waiting for the right opportunity to acquire a Cat O hitch. I finally got one mid summer and so I am finally going to begin to set up my “perfect” plow tractor. I totally understand that any tractor that you can plow on is the perfect tractor but I think you understand what I’m saying.
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I did get it out this spring and roll the lawn. I’m gonna have to open up the tranny and find out what it going on there since it won’t shift into third gear. I also would like to play with the gear set a little and place gears in it that would be especially suited to plowing since that is what I primarily intend on doing with it in the future. I also have a low hour P220G sitting on the shelf just begging to go into this thing of the Briggs fails me. I’ll keep you posted on my progress...
 

dkline

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Daniel J. Kline
I know that I could post this on the main board since this is an IH made tractor but it has a later model Briggs I/C 18hp motor. I don't want to incite the wrath of the correct policeView attachment 20462

So---my question is, do you guys have experience with the fuel pump/carb on these engines? This one has the vacuum operated fuel pump attached to the main body of the carb. I started the engine today with dumping a little fuel in the carb with the air cleaner off. If I kept adding a squirt of fuel, it would keep running. However, if I let it alone, it would starve for fuel and die in about 4 seconds. Could be the pump but I'm not sure how to test since it isn't separate. Could be a gummed up carb since the PO said that it sat for about a year without running.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or help...
wow... Just last week the same problem cropped up on my 582. Can't seem to keep gas going. new filter no help. Clean out gas tank no help. I think my fuel was corrupted because I had not run the machine since spring. Now the carb is clogged I think.
 

dkline

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Daniel J. Kline
I know I can't post here since my serial number shows my 582 was made in the first weeks after MTD took ownership. Only thing different coming off the line was the serial. However, I may have the same opposed Briggs two banger with 18 horses. Not sure of carb style since this is my only Cub and farming is my game. Sadly it sits as a non-performing asset. Maybe I will take the carb off and take the risk that I can get it back on right. I have the PDF manual but finding carb settings is not as easy as I wish.
 
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