3184 hydraulics

[jgunnarson]

After cleaning my driveway, went to put tractor in my shed. Hydraulics quit. No steering, forward, reverse, or lift. Was able to drive apprx. 50', then nothing. Pushed into the garage. After some research, I pulled the charge pump. Found the splined sprocket (excuse me if this is not the proper term) on the gerotor assy. was broken into 6 pcs. Changed that today, still nothing. Frustrating! Any ideas on where to go next? Thanks, Jim

 

[dtanner]

jim gunnarson

I found that same problem here on a 123. turns out the rear end had water in it and had froze up. Can you spin the shaft that comes out of the back of the hydro??? Something has to be broken in the drive line for that pin and star assemble to brake ,Its called the charge pump. I`ll post some picture of the broken parts in the am I took from the 123 hydro I had apart. I would remove the hydro pump from the rear end and see if the shaft that goes through the pump will turn.Also try to turn the shaft that powers the rear end(the splined shaft). let me know what you find. later Don T

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jim G. Welcome to the Forum!!! Donald T. made some good points. Now forgive me for sounding a little grumpy going forward. This is the information that you've provided us.... "Hydraulics quit working... pulled the charge pump and replaced broken parts... still not working..." .... OKAY.... hmmmm.... Now I know once again why I don't like to help someone that has provided so litte information.... There is so little information and I don't know squat about the mechanical abilities of the person or any history or pictures of the tractor to begin to have a starting point so as to be able to help. Happy Sunday Morning... ( sorta like going to the dentist and saying, "Doc. My tooth hurts."

Okay... some questions for you to answer... What type of hydraulic oil are you using? How often do you change it AND the filter? As Donald T. stated.... any chance of water buildup within the system? How many hours on the tractor? Charge pumps don't normally just break.

Did you properly bleed all the air out of the system after reassembly? Did you put some oil/grease in the charge pump to help prime the charge pump? Did you follow the SERVICE MANUAL'S procedure for primimg the system? If you've done things properly then the system should be working.

Again... I don't mean to be a grump however ... the more information that you provide us then the quicker we can help solve your troubles.

Keep us posted...

 

[jgunnarson]

Marlin, Thanks for responding! Yeah, You sounded a little grumpy, but I understand. It's my first experience on the Forum and I didn't expect any miracle solutions from my first posting. Now that I have a better idea of what info. you would like I'll continue. I won't send any pics at this time, but can later if need be. I use only genuine Cub Cadet recommended fluid and filters. The last change was prior to this winter season. There are about 380 hrs. on my tractor. I did not bleed any lines, did not add grease or oil to the charge pump. I do not have a service manual. I suppose there is a chance of water in the system, but at this point I have not torn it down that far. Another forum that I saw led me to inspection of the charge pump, and this did not require draining the fluid as the pump is at the top of the system. Fluid is full. Thanks again, Jim

 

[jgunnarson]

Don T., Thanks for your response. I appreciate any help that you can give me. Jim

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jim G. That's okay. One never really thinks about what information they should provide to someone to help troubleshoot anything when all the other person has is extremely limited information on the subject. Okay... I believe that you have the BDU21L Series pump on your tractor. This manual is for the BDU15L Series Sauer Danfoss 15 Series Manual which is found on the older Cub Cadets. Both are fairly similar in design and troubleshooting is the same. This manual Quietline Series will have a pretty darned good section on troubleshooting and what to do after reassembly of a hydro pump. I.E. Bleeding the system (so to speak) to avoid air pockets, etc. From what I am picking up is that you more than likely have an air pocket somehwere in your line going to the charge pump. So, I'd be inclined to go that route and be checking there first. Hope this helps. BTW... There are a lot of guys with more widsom about these little pumps on here than I have.

 

[digger]

Just so everyone doesn't forget.
We have 3 other hydro manuals besides the one that Marlin posted, including a trouble shooting manual, in the manuals section.
http://www.ccmanuals.info/hydro.html

 

[jgunnarson]

Don T. I removed the hydro from my 3184 today. The top shaft turns very easily, and the charge pump had fluid in it. The bottom shaft (to the rear end) turns but much more difficult. I don't know if that is typical. After removing the hydro, the splined shaft at the top and front of the rear end (that would be powered by the lower hydro shaft) turns very freely. Please let me know what you think. Should I disassemble the hydro, or am I jumping the gun? Thanks Jim G

 

[dtanner]

jim gunnarson

Charlie and Marlin posted the manuals for you I would take it apart to see what happened. might be nothing but All you need is a few gaskets and CC Specialties sells them. I would replace the trunnion seals and the cork gasket. then you will know what you have. It is not that hard to work on the hydro and used ones are not that much money if you can`t get it back working.To break the pin in the charge pump tells me that you have a problem some where . how cold is the weather there , Could the rear end have frozen up with ice. that is what I found on my 123 . I drained the rear end and found the ice. That ice cause the charge pump pin to break . have fun with it . later Don T

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jim G. If I may ask.... How long do you let the engine/hydro actually warm up before trying to move the tractor when it is cold? Not lettng things warm up thoroughly can lead to such breakage. I know that the first time you were done moving the snow however the initial warmup period is crutial.

 

[jgunnarson]

Marlin, I let it warm up pretty good, depending on weather. Never had a problem in the past ten years until now, and this is one of our mildest winters on record. I do agree with you. Hydraulics are very stiff when it's cold. I tore down the hydro today and everything looks perfect. so far with all that I have torn down, the only thing broken is the pin and star assembly. I ordered gaskets etc. today, and also a tech. service manual specific to my tractor. Maybe the bleeding procedure that you referred to was what I needed to do after changing the pin and star. Not exactly sure how to do that, but the manual should help me. Happy to see nothing else broken that could have led to another pin and star assembly. Thanks, Jim G

 

[dtanner]

jim gunnarson

when was the last time you took the cover off and drained the rear end ?? If I were you I would drain the rear end and replace the filter. I all ways fill the filter with hytran before I put it back in place. have a look at the fluid that comes out of the rear end to see if it has much water . The water will be in the form of a ball (like snot) if It had hytran in the rear end. You might as well do a full service and be good for another 10 years. you will have the tractor running again soon and be happier knowing it will give you years of service. later Don T

 

[jgunnarson]

Don T. I have never removed the pan until yesterday. I drained the fluid and changed the filter last fall. No sign of water with all the teardown that I have done. Fluid that I use is recommended CC fluid and CC filter as well. Thanks, Jim G

 

[dtanner]

jim gunnarson

Sound like you got it covered . I still wonder what broke the pin and destroyed the charge pump. Like I said the only one I have ever seen broke was because the rear end had so much (frozen) water in it the gears could not spin and that caused the charge pump damage.

Ah did you have a loose chain on your tractor???

I did have a chain catch up and that will do some damage. I think there have been some axles broke from the chain getting caught that the wheel can`t turn. I guess I`am just reaching because I hate not knowing what the heck happened .

 

[mhomrighausen]

JIm G. Just a wild possiblity here that perhaps a very small piece of the broken gerotor assembly may have found its way into a check valve or some other area of the pump and is causing an open circuit. It doesn't take a very big piece to cause havoc on a system. Also, is this the main charge pump or an auxiliary charge pump which would be located on the back of the main pump? I'm not up to things on the newer MTD built Cub Cadets. Principal is still the same though. (I should really get out my Service and Tech Manuals for those pumps to see just how much difference there is in the internal components.)

 

[jgunnarson]

Don T. , No loose or broken chains. I assume you mean a tire chain. No internal chains found in teardown or on the parts list. I too am grasping for a cause. We'll see! Jim G

 

[jgunnarson]

Marlin, What you're thinking is very possible. I have not seen anything so far in the teardown and cleaning process. The charge pump is a separate pump that bolts to the upper rear of the hydro and is powered by a shaft that goes thru the hydro and bolts to the main drive shaft. Jim G

 

[jgunnarson]

I'm back, and operational. Wanted to take a minute to thank everyone who helped me . Thought I might have been in over my head for awhile. Service manual from MTD was not real helpful, but between that, the posted manuals, everyone that responded to my postings, racking a local dealers brain and lots of patience, everything is back to normal. I still don't know what caused the pin and star to break, as I found no other issues in the teardown. I've used it twice since last week, and 2 storms in the forecast so it should get a good test. I hope it continues to work like it does . Thanks again! Jim G

 

[mhomrighausen]

JIm G. Thank You for the update! It is much appreciated.