Looking for advice. Ran across a '91 Ford 450 7.3l (non-turbo) dually today with 90k original miles. Good rubber, faded paint and stake bed. Drove it and seemed solid. Son-in-law says it no count w/o a turbo so forget it. Says they're all noise and no go. Anyone have any REAL experience with one and any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks
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snicklas
Well-known member
Terry,
Goto: http://www.oilburners.net/ and take a look at the 6.9 and 7.3 IDI section. This is the one of the best sites on the IDI. Actually you just missed the 12 Annual Oilburners IDI Rally. It moves around, but this year happened to be healed at the KOA in Mt Comfort. Read through the forum, lots of good info there.
Goto: http://www.oilburners.net/ and take a look at the 6.9 and 7.3 IDI section. This is the one of the best sites on the IDI. Actually you just missed the 12 Annual Oilburners IDI Rally. It moves around, but this year happened to be healed at the KOA in Mt Comfort. Read through the forum, lots of good info there.
Terry D.
The only reason it's NO COUNT is cause of the oval on the grill!!!!!
The only reason it's NO COUNT is cause of the oval on the grill!!!!!
Hey Scott - I'll give it a look and sounds like a good source. And Charlie, think you might be on to something there! It did have a nice dump bed on it which might just come in handy if the boss doesn't lay off the sweets!!
Terry I finally got 270,000 miles on a Ford like that one. Replaced glo plugs twice each year and the relay every year. You had to plug in the engine heater in weather below 30 degrees or it would not start. I just would not buy one for myself.
TERRY - Had a co-worker years ago that bought a brand new 7.3 IDI '88 F250 reg cab 4WD, would have been a twin to my '96 PSD except his was blue, mine's red. He's the kind of guy that breaks EVERYTHING, even forged steel anvils with a rubber mallet. Couldn't break that F250. I was driving my Mustang GT towards work one day, saw him pull up to an intersection as I went thru. Next time I see him it's this HUGE blue oval grill emblem about a foot off my back bumper in my rear view mirror going around a 20 MPH curve at 40 MPH.
Anyhow, he never had any starting issues. Didn't have enough HP to suit him, think the N/A 7.3 IDI was rated 180-185 HP, same as the 351W was, the 6.9 IDI was 160 or 165. First PSD's were 210. But he never put the available aftermarket turbo on his truck so it wasn't that bad.
The engine was/is bullet-proof, some people who didn't use supplimental cooling additives, FW-15 is FMC's #, Fleet-Rite's DCA-4 is the same stuff, mix according to label and use test strips every oil change to confirm concentration, suffered cavitation erosion of the cyl. walls which required sleeving, but nobody who used the additive had problems. Make sure the seller knows what your talking about when you ask him about it. If he doesn't know what you're talking about, RUN!
The E4OD is an O-K automatic, for 150,000 miles between rebuilds; the ZF-5 spd was a good manual trans, but in '96 Ford started using an upgraded trans, 470#/ft torque capacity verses 420#/ft in the earlier trucks. An N/A 7.3 IDI probably can't hurt the lighter trans anyhow.
The mechanical injection pump is simpler than the electronic injection on the PSD's, and cheaper to fix if it does have problems, injectors are cheaper too.
I've never had glow plug issues like Luther describes with my PSD, only replaced GP's around 250,000 miles, and GP relay every 3, maybe 4 yrs depending on use, GP's are $8/each X 8, GPR is $40-$50. But the 7.3 IDI has a Totally different system and I've heard it can have issues. Think the GP controller was around $100 or more. I've started my PSD in 10-15 degree F temps without my block heater, still had 15W-40 summer oil in it, but it didn't like it. 10W-30 oil and plug the block heater in 3 hrs before starting and that engine should pop right off.
If the truck has had any maintenance is 90,000 miles, and the seller used the coolant additive, I wouldn't be afraid of it for occasional use. OBS (Old Body Style) Ford's like that with low miles are really hard to find. Dump beds are nice, I've considered converting my p/u to a dump bed flatbed with sides but the P/U frames are different than the cab/chasis trucks like that F450, plus with the weight of the bed & hoist I;d almost be over-loaded when empty! Not the case with the F450.
Get the seller down to $2500-$3000 and buy it.
Anyhow, he never had any starting issues. Didn't have enough HP to suit him, think the N/A 7.3 IDI was rated 180-185 HP, same as the 351W was, the 6.9 IDI was 160 or 165. First PSD's were 210. But he never put the available aftermarket turbo on his truck so it wasn't that bad.
The engine was/is bullet-proof, some people who didn't use supplimental cooling additives, FW-15 is FMC's #, Fleet-Rite's DCA-4 is the same stuff, mix according to label and use test strips every oil change to confirm concentration, suffered cavitation erosion of the cyl. walls which required sleeving, but nobody who used the additive had problems. Make sure the seller knows what your talking about when you ask him about it. If he doesn't know what you're talking about, RUN!
The E4OD is an O-K automatic, for 150,000 miles between rebuilds; the ZF-5 spd was a good manual trans, but in '96 Ford started using an upgraded trans, 470#/ft torque capacity verses 420#/ft in the earlier trucks. An N/A 7.3 IDI probably can't hurt the lighter trans anyhow.
The mechanical injection pump is simpler than the electronic injection on the PSD's, and cheaper to fix if it does have problems, injectors are cheaper too.
I've never had glow plug issues like Luther describes with my PSD, only replaced GP's around 250,000 miles, and GP relay every 3, maybe 4 yrs depending on use, GP's are $8/each X 8, GPR is $40-$50. But the 7.3 IDI has a Totally different system and I've heard it can have issues. Think the GP controller was around $100 or more. I've started my PSD in 10-15 degree F temps without my block heater, still had 15W-40 summer oil in it, but it didn't like it. 10W-30 oil and plug the block heater in 3 hrs before starting and that engine should pop right off.
If the truck has had any maintenance is 90,000 miles, and the seller used the coolant additive, I wouldn't be afraid of it for occasional use. OBS (Old Body Style) Ford's like that with low miles are really hard to find. Dump beds are nice, I've considered converting my p/u to a dump bed flatbed with sides but the P/U frames are different than the cab/chasis trucks like that F450, plus with the weight of the bed & hoist I;d almost be over-loaded when empty! Not the case with the F450.
Get the seller down to $2500-$3000 and buy it.
Terry Davis
No go with out a turbo is an issue and if it is near freezing , well they won`t start. Freeze your buns off in winter .injectors don`t last.Ford had a good body but it should have had a Cummins .
last time I posted some thing about a FORD ; Denny sent me a there paragraph email. Got to pick on you some
No go with out a turbo is an issue and if it is near freezing , well they won`t start. Freeze your buns off in winter .injectors don`t last.Ford had a good body but it should have had a Cummins .
last time I posted some thing about a FORD ; Denny sent me a there paragraph email. Got to pick on you some
DON - The N/A 7.3 IDI is no worse than the N/A 5.9 Cum-a-part or even some of the early turbo'd 5.9's, and worlds better than the 6.2 & 6.5L GM.
The IDI design does kill combusion efficiency, the injectors & GP's have to be in the "pre-combustion cup", VERY old technology, but if the GP's & GP controller are up to snuff, and you plug the block heater in for 2-4 hrs they start right up even below Zero C. I plug my PSD in on the timer when it gets below freezing and I need it to go somewhere. The fact it starts & runs as soon as I turn the key saves a lot of stress & strain on the batteries & starter. Guess that's why my factory starter is still working great after 9+ yrs of daily use and another eight yrs of infrequent use. Ohhh, and the factory batteries lasted 6-7 yrs, and the replacements, now 10-11 yrs old are still going strong!
ALL my Ford p/u's have had great heaters, the '78 was so-so, but better than most, but the '87 & '96 are the ONLY vehicles I've ever owned that after half an hour the Wife reaches over and shuts the heater off when it's really cold, like below Zero F. You need a good thermostat, and a winter front in cold weather helps to keep the operating temps up, also increases winter MPG.
I've never really seen any complaints on forums about the injectors on the 6.9 & 7.3 IDI's. Like I said, they're cheap to replace compared to the HEUI injectors. I've seen complaints about the HEUI injectors on PSD's, but.. well, 301K on my PSD and never had a single issue with an injector... EVER.
I was wondering when you'd comment about that e-mail I sent. Way it looks to me you passed up $10,000 you could have spent on CC's or more mopeds.
I really don't have a problem with Cummins engines, I've driven in Cummins powered trucks well over a million miles. And only had to hitch rides home twice, 75 miles & 165 miles when they suffered catastrophic failures, two different engines, a 903 & 290 HP 855. And there were other issues, like the leaky oil pan on the 903 300 miles from home, and leaking injector bypass lines on the old 165 HP Cummins in my ready-mix truck, common problem, that resulted in me running out of fuel before NOON one day when the other trucks that didn't leak fuel could run all day. But running out of fuel DID make the shop mechanic fix the leak. Plus the leaking hot diesel fuel cleaned ALL the grease, oil, & cement off the drivetrain, transmissions, axles, frame etc. really well, shined up the paint too.
I don't mind debating the merits of Dodge vs Ford trucks with you. I just know you've never had a Ford or a Ford diesel. Compared to my 33 yrs of Ford truck ownership and half million miles of driving, only three trucks in all that time. I'm not counting the '48, '52, '56, & '67 Ford pickups Dad had and that I drove. Wish I could find that '56 F350 SRW pickup w/ nine ft long step-side box! 272 V8 & creeper low 4-spd.
The IDI design does kill combusion efficiency, the injectors & GP's have to be in the "pre-combustion cup", VERY old technology, but if the GP's & GP controller are up to snuff, and you plug the block heater in for 2-4 hrs they start right up even below Zero C. I plug my PSD in on the timer when it gets below freezing and I need it to go somewhere. The fact it starts & runs as soon as I turn the key saves a lot of stress & strain on the batteries & starter. Guess that's why my factory starter is still working great after 9+ yrs of daily use and another eight yrs of infrequent use. Ohhh, and the factory batteries lasted 6-7 yrs, and the replacements, now 10-11 yrs old are still going strong!
ALL my Ford p/u's have had great heaters, the '78 was so-so, but better than most, but the '87 & '96 are the ONLY vehicles I've ever owned that after half an hour the Wife reaches over and shuts the heater off when it's really cold, like below Zero F. You need a good thermostat, and a winter front in cold weather helps to keep the operating temps up, also increases winter MPG.
I've never really seen any complaints on forums about the injectors on the 6.9 & 7.3 IDI's. Like I said, they're cheap to replace compared to the HEUI injectors. I've seen complaints about the HEUI injectors on PSD's, but.. well, 301K on my PSD and never had a single issue with an injector... EVER.
I was wondering when you'd comment about that e-mail I sent. Way it looks to me you passed up $10,000 you could have spent on CC's or more mopeds.
I really don't have a problem with Cummins engines, I've driven in Cummins powered trucks well over a million miles. And only had to hitch rides home twice, 75 miles & 165 miles when they suffered catastrophic failures, two different engines, a 903 & 290 HP 855. And there were other issues, like the leaky oil pan on the 903 300 miles from home, and leaking injector bypass lines on the old 165 HP Cummins in my ready-mix truck, common problem, that resulted in me running out of fuel before NOON one day when the other trucks that didn't leak fuel could run all day. But running out of fuel DID make the shop mechanic fix the leak. Plus the leaking hot diesel fuel cleaned ALL the grease, oil, & cement off the drivetrain, transmissions, axles, frame etc. really well, shined up the paint too.
I don't mind debating the merits of Dodge vs Ford trucks with you. I just know you've never had a Ford or a Ford diesel. Compared to my 33 yrs of Ford truck ownership and half million miles of driving, only three trucks in all that time. I'm not counting the '48, '52, '56, & '67 Ford pickups Dad had and that I drove. Wish I could find that '56 F350 SRW pickup w/ nine ft long step-side box! 272 V8 & creeper low 4-spd.
mfrade
Well-known member
Looks Nice Luther! Good luck with it!
LUTHER - Nice truck! The interior looks similar to SON's '06 F150 FX4 Supercab... only your's is longer inside. Very comfy. Son drove his '93 Lightning for ten yrs & 140K miles, and rode shot-gun in my reg cab '96 F250 for probably 100K more miles. And a month or two ago he got in my truck to back it out of the shop and commented "How cramped the cab felt on the OBS (old body style) trucks. He's way too used to the new roomier cabs now after 3+ yrs.
Only comment I can make is I'd go back and get the "rest of the pickup box". I had two SWB reg cab F150 4X4's from spring of '80 until spring of '96. They turned shorter than my F250 because of the 116 inch wheel base compared to the F250's 133" WB, but I don't think I could give up my eight foot long box now after 17 yrs. I haul enough plywood, drywall, and sheet steel that the short 4-5 ft beds on the SWB 4-door P/U's just wouldn't work for me. I hauled 20+ 1X12's sixteen feet long in my '78 F150 once. Had to set a 100# Farmall M cylinder head on the frt of them so they wouldn't tip up and unload themselves on the 20+ mile ride home. Glad it wasn't after dark, my head lights would have shined to the very tops of the trees all the way home.
And if I ever got a full 4-door truck, I could still only carry ONE passenger since the back seat in my little commuter car is constantly full of "stuff".
Only comment I can make is I'd go back and get the "rest of the pickup box". I had two SWB reg cab F150 4X4's from spring of '80 until spring of '96. They turned shorter than my F250 because of the 116 inch wheel base compared to the F250's 133" WB, but I don't think I could give up my eight foot long box now after 17 yrs. I haul enough plywood, drywall, and sheet steel that the short 4-5 ft beds on the SWB 4-door P/U's just wouldn't work for me. I hauled 20+ 1X12's sixteen feet long in my '78 F150 once. Had to set a 100# Farmall M cylinder head on the frt of them so they wouldn't tip up and unload themselves on the 20+ mile ride home. Glad it wasn't after dark, my head lights would have shined to the very tops of the trees all the way home.
And if I ever got a full 4-door truck, I could still only carry ONE passenger since the back seat in my little commuter car is constantly full of "stuff".
kide
Well-known member
- Joined
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- Gerry Ide
Luther: Great looking ride! I'M guessing that my next one'll be a F150, as no one is making a downsized one (Ford killed the F-100 project back in '07) and they quit making the SportTrac a couple of years ago (I'm on my second one of those).
Dennis: My first 4 wheel ride was a '31 Model A pickup. Get your son in one of those and he'd appreciate the cab room of any pickup made after about 1960.. And I'd kill for a six foot box, let alone an 8 foot. (but I do love the ride and handling of the SportTrac - it's a genuine freeway flyer).
Dennis: My first 4 wheel ride was a '31 Model A pickup. Get your son in one of those and he'd appreciate the cab room of any pickup made after about 1960.. And I'd kill for a six foot box, let alone an 8 foot. (but I do love the ride and handling of the SportTrac - it's a genuine freeway flyer).
Luther, I'll save you a spot right next to me!!
GERRY - It's amazing how small the cabs on older trucks were. The second summer I hauled ready-mix, I went from a '74 Diamond-Reo to a '66 White, think they refered to them as a "Mustang", The Reo was really nice inside the cab, fake walnut wood-grain trim all over the dash. The White's dash was painted Construction Orange, same as the outside of the cab. I could actually wind the window crank down in the White sitting in the driver's seat of the White, once I reached over and around the twin-stick 5+4. No passenger seat in any of them. To lower the pass. side window in the Reo I had to walk about a step towards/around the Allison A/T shift column and the inside mixer control, and wind the crank.
The '79 White RoadBoss II I drove I actually had to get out of the driver's seat and WALK across the cab to lower the window... elec. windows for the passenger door was an option. Between my Bostrum air-ride seat and the pass. seat bolted solid to the cab floor there was around four feet of "open space".
Intersting fact... Dad bought a '67 F250 Camper Special as his farm truck in about 1970, NICE truck, 352 V8, FMX auto-trans, classic tu-tone, Whimbleton white cab roof, turquiose top of the body & rocker panels, and white in between. To keep ALL the "Stuff" behind the flip-forward seat he built a wood box about 6" wide and 6 inches tall the width of the cab. State Law in IL back then you had to carry flares & reflectors in p/u's, and some shop towels, couple quarts of oil in case a tractor needed some in the field, log chain, tarp straps, rope... that kind of "Stuff". In spring of '80 when I bought my '78 F150 I actually had to cut the one small compartment off the end of that box to fit it in the cab of the '78 because it was 3-4 inches narrower. When I ordered the '87 F150, I got a blow-molded plastic inside the bed tool box that sat up against the pass. side box rail ahead of the rear wheel tub inside the box. All that stuff lived "there" then. Then I got the PSD F250 in '96, that tool box wouldn't fit the long box, so I just stash stuff under the seat. Things like cam position sensors (tiny Hall Effect Sensor), new fan belt, fan belt tensioner, and tools to change all that stuff. Gallon of Rotella 15W-40 and a spare fuel filter live behind the seat along with a roll of shop towels, think I have a heavy coat back there too from my days of driving 120-150 miles to/from work everyday in winter.
I "Almost" built my own "Lightning" p/u back around 1972. Good friend of my family traded his '48 black Ford F1 p/u off for a new '72 F-100. Good friend of mine rolled and totalled his '72 Mustang Mach 1 Mustang w/351C 4bbl, C6 trans & 9" Traction-Loc rearend with only 1800 miles on it, would have been the perfect drive train for the old F1. And would have beat ALl the Gen 1 Lightnings in the 1/4 mile for many years, except I don't think you'd ever get it stopped before you got to the sand traps at the end of the track.
And YES, a 6-1/2 ft (flare-side) or 6-3/4 ft (style-side) box is nice. My old #72 got hauled many many miles in both my old SWB pickups. I even trimmed the 44A deck down on the discharge side so it was only 47 inches wide, narrow enough to haul the 129 between the wheel wells in the box of the '87 without removing the mower deck.
The '79 White RoadBoss II I drove I actually had to get out of the driver's seat and WALK across the cab to lower the window... elec. windows for the passenger door was an option. Between my Bostrum air-ride seat and the pass. seat bolted solid to the cab floor there was around four feet of "open space".
Intersting fact... Dad bought a '67 F250 Camper Special as his farm truck in about 1970, NICE truck, 352 V8, FMX auto-trans, classic tu-tone, Whimbleton white cab roof, turquiose top of the body & rocker panels, and white in between. To keep ALL the "Stuff" behind the flip-forward seat he built a wood box about 6" wide and 6 inches tall the width of the cab. State Law in IL back then you had to carry flares & reflectors in p/u's, and some shop towels, couple quarts of oil in case a tractor needed some in the field, log chain, tarp straps, rope... that kind of "Stuff". In spring of '80 when I bought my '78 F150 I actually had to cut the one small compartment off the end of that box to fit it in the cab of the '78 because it was 3-4 inches narrower. When I ordered the '87 F150, I got a blow-molded plastic inside the bed tool box that sat up against the pass. side box rail ahead of the rear wheel tub inside the box. All that stuff lived "there" then. Then I got the PSD F250 in '96, that tool box wouldn't fit the long box, so I just stash stuff under the seat. Things like cam position sensors (tiny Hall Effect Sensor), new fan belt, fan belt tensioner, and tools to change all that stuff. Gallon of Rotella 15W-40 and a spare fuel filter live behind the seat along with a roll of shop towels, think I have a heavy coat back there too from my days of driving 120-150 miles to/from work everyday in winter.
I "Almost" built my own "Lightning" p/u back around 1972. Good friend of my family traded his '48 black Ford F1 p/u off for a new '72 F-100. Good friend of mine rolled and totalled his '72 Mustang Mach 1 Mustang w/351C 4bbl, C6 trans & 9" Traction-Loc rearend with only 1800 miles on it, would have been the perfect drive train for the old F1. And would have beat ALl the Gen 1 Lightnings in the 1/4 mile for many years, except I don't think you'd ever get it stopped before you got to the sand traps at the end of the track.
And YES, a 6-1/2 ft (flare-side) or 6-3/4 ft (style-side) box is nice. My old #72 got hauled many many miles in both my old SWB pickups. I even trimmed the 44A deck down on the discharge side so it was only 47 inches wide, narrow enough to haul the 129 between the wheel wells in the box of the '87 without removing the mower deck.
Thanks for the compliments guys. I don't miss the 8ft. box at all. I am so used to pulling a trailer and the 5ft 6 inch bed truck is much easier to park. I seen a advertisement for a ford Atlas coming out soon. It is a scaled down version of the F150. It has a lot of changes for dynamics. It has a lot of accessories including built in loading ramps. Going to take a serious look when they come out.
LUTHER - I guess it all depends on what you use your P/U for as to which bed length works best for you. I haul a lot of 4'x8' sheet material and 10' & 12' lumber & steel. I can fit 10' mterial cross-ways in the box with the tailgate closed. I've never really seen a truck that was "Too Big", but then I drove semi's and other BIG trucks for quite a while. I remember hurrying home from Chicago one night to attend a city planning meeting at our City hall one night. The city was going to rebuild our street and charge everyone who lived on the street for the costs. Luckily I was one of the first people there... my 65 ft semi, tractor & 45 ft trailer took up at least four parking spots on the street in frt of the City hall. I could have "parallel parked" the rig if I had to, but "angle parking" would not have been an option, the trailer would have stuck out over half way across the street.
Only time my 4WD F250 concerns me is when negotiating indoor parking ramps, most have only 7 ft of head room, and my truck is real close to that, but the length & width are easy to handle.
I'll have to do some research on that new Ford Atlas, sounds interesting.
While researching for buying my F250, meaning down and UNDER new trucks on my dealer's lots, the reg cab F250 was the longest truck Ford made without a center carrier bearing on the rear drive shaft, the extended cab, SuperCab in Ford speak, with the 6-3/4 ft box had one, all the 4-doors did too. And I did NOT want that, many people complain about a "shudder" when accelerating with the longer trucks when towing heavy due to drive shaft phasing & angle issues, plus those carrier bearings are a pain to replace and they wear out rather quickly. You need a press to remove & install them. I was a bit concerned with the full floating rear axle on the 3/4 & 1-ton trucks. They have a problem with leaking oil seals at the rear wheels, which coats the brake shoes with oil, and either makes the rear brakes prone to locking up, or not work at all, but in over 300,000 miles I haven't had a problem yet. My '87 F150 did have a leaky seal around 100,000 in it's semi-floating 8.8" axle. Not a fan of that axle at all. Glad FMC doesn't use it much anymore.
Only time my 4WD F250 concerns me is when negotiating indoor parking ramps, most have only 7 ft of head room, and my truck is real close to that, but the length & width are easy to handle.
I'll have to do some research on that new Ford Atlas, sounds interesting.
While researching for buying my F250, meaning down and UNDER new trucks on my dealer's lots, the reg cab F250 was the longest truck Ford made without a center carrier bearing on the rear drive shaft, the extended cab, SuperCab in Ford speak, with the 6-3/4 ft box had one, all the 4-doors did too. And I did NOT want that, many people complain about a "shudder" when accelerating with the longer trucks when towing heavy due to drive shaft phasing & angle issues, plus those carrier bearings are a pain to replace and they wear out rather quickly. You need a press to remove & install them. I was a bit concerned with the full floating rear axle on the 3/4 & 1-ton trucks. They have a problem with leaking oil seals at the rear wheels, which coats the brake shoes with oil, and either makes the rear brakes prone to locking up, or not work at all, but in over 300,000 miles I haven't had a problem yet. My '87 F150 did have a leaky seal around 100,000 in it's semi-floating 8.8" axle. Not a fan of that axle at all. Glad FMC doesn't use it much anymore.
mhomrighausen
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- Marlin Homrighausen
Ron G. Very Nice!!! I'm jealous in a good way and very happy for you.
Nick K. Now that is truly nice. You get to let the Cub Cadet listen to the radio on the way to its new home.
Nick K. Now that is truly nice. You get to let the Cub Cadet listen to the radio on the way to its new home.
