Kirk Engines, Inc Cub Cadet Used Parts CADET CONNECTION Cub Cadet Specialties Cub Cadet Specialties

Snagged this yesterday on a whim

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dschwandt

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David Schwandt
Looks like I will have to pull the engine in order to dis-assemble it enough to access the breather assembly for inspection.

Am I all wet in assuming the rings are satisfactory at 160 and 155 PSI compression??
I really need some good advice here as I have never been into one of these newer V engines

Sure like working on the older stuff, much much easier as this think is a TOTAL PITA so far.
Looks like the breather parts are all contained in a kit that includes the filter, reed, gasket and the whole 9 yards. Part #KH-24-033-01s.
I have my fingers crossed hoping this will be the issue,
What little I ran it yesterday resulted in using about 10 oz. of oil as the level was down just below the add mark when checked this morning. That's a lot IMHO for such a short run duration. SOMEHOW it is getting into the intake and to me, after reading that section in the FSM the breather idea makes sense.
Both plugs were wet when removed for the comp test.
 

mgonitzke

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I had an oil consumption issue on the CH18/20 I put in my 1872; that ended up being a blown head gasket, but I put all of those breather parts in to make sure I wasn't going to have to tear into it again. That "foam" baffle thing in there disintegrates and can keep the reed valve from sealing. There may have been a bit of that going on with mine, but most of the oil consumption was due to the blown head gasket venting combustion chamber pressure into the crankcase, which then overwhelmed the breather and dumped a ton of oil overboard.

The breather is a bit of a pain to service. The kit should come with an updated cover and gasket, as apparently the original ones were leak prone. The original gasket will probably mostly stick to the block and be a giant pain to remove. I ended up using a die grinder with one of those plastic gasket removal wheels to get it all off.
 

dschwandt

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That's where I'm at now Matt
Just sat down to see what I might learn, if anything, on YouTube about this.
Got the top end dis-assembled and could find nothing out of the ordinary with the breather ass'y.

I agree with your head gasket theory so I may as well figure on that line of approach next then order all the parts needed for re-assembly.
Yours was definitely the head gasket, eh?
 

mgonitzke

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Yeah, the gasket was clearly compromised between the combustion chamber and that oil return passage that is very close to it. Since replacing the head gaskets, the oil consumption has dropped from a quart in 10 hours to basically nothing.
 

titan

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Sorry, too early to type... we had one of these foggers 60 years ago. It was mounted to push mower and was fed via drip tank. Used to spray DDT mix which made a massive white cloud. Damn stuff killed everything! Small wonder it was banned.
 

dschwandt

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Meanwhile , back on topic.....

You guys are NOT going to believe this!!
Removed both heads for further inspection and found nothing wrong in either hole.
Walls looked good with most cross hatch still showing.
Stumped, to say the least....

Then, on another whim (which I should have had earlier) I drained the oil.
Looked good, not dirty but flowed slowly out the drain hose, probably because the engine has been on the bench in my shop with the AC on.

As the drain container, a 2.5 gal jug bottom cut off about 4" deep was filling, I started noticing it sure looked like it was getting really full so a watched as the stream turned to a drop at a time, than removed the filter and dumped the contents in the pan as well.

OK, All the oil is in the pan, and damn, that sure looked like a hell of a lot of oil. Mind you now that I had added only 8oz the day before to get the level back up to barely above the add mark on the dipstick after about 10 minutes of so of fogging the neighbor hood. It was at the full mark when I got the unit and started it for the first time, the battery (a new NAPA) was DOA.

I dug out my trusty 2 QT oil can with the flex spout (remember those!!) and started to empty the pan, 2 qt's to the full mark and still more oil in the drain pan. got a 1 qt measure and filled it as well, still more oil in the pan....
I estimated at this point, with the oil at the FULL mark as it was when I picked it up from the P.O., there had to have been at least 3, maybe 3-1/2 Qts of oil in that engine!!
Long story short.......wait for it......
Further research comparing dip sticks and tube on 3 other CH Kohlers we have here revealed, Long story short.......wait for it......

The dipstick TUBE.....IS 2-1/4" too long!!!!!
I have absolutely no idea how that could have happened!

Tube was clean and looked to have been replaced recently.
UN-FREAKING believable.
 

kmcconaughey

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Wow! Would be nice to know the back story on that, and where they may have had it serviced at.
 

mgonitzke

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Possible scenario:

Somewhere there is a serial number break on those engines where the changed the dipstick from a metal handle with a swaged "cap" and non-replaceable rubber seal (that tends to go bad) to one with a plastic handle and replaceable O-ring. The latter uses a larger diameter dipstick tube, and the replacement kit comes with 3 different dipstick tubes with different bends, and they are slightly different lengths. I'd guess that was replaced, and I'd also guess there is a much longer dipstick tube for the vertical shaft engines, and perhaps the wrong replacement kit got ordered.

Now that you've said that and I looked at your pics again, it is immediately obvious that the dipstick was replaced very recently, and the tube is WAY too high compared to the air cleaner. The top of the tube should be roughly flush with the top of the muffler shroud.
 

jkoenig

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Jim Koenig Halfway between Harvester, MO and Cadet, MO
...I just don't understand. I replaced the leaky dipstick tube, changed the oil, and now it burns oil, but the dipstick tube doesn't leak...

I'd hate to be the tech who had to explain that one!
 

dschwandt

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David Schwandt
Anyway, I'll have one heck of a nice machine for only $300 and maybe another $100 in gaskets and breather kit plus my time. Might just be a dedicated bagger unit this fall!

Think I will put a filter on it and add the correct amount of oil then adjust (shorten) the length of the tube till the oil meets the full mark on the stick.

Lesson learned here, NEVER take anything for granted when purchasing used equipment!!:yikes:
 
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Neil Mullins

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Hey, No one has seen it all!!! You think you have… Then there is an issue that Elmutt Shadetree created without having the understanding that this engine only requires X-oz. of oil. …… Why am I having to put 3X in there. You can never assume that Elmutt parts guy sold you the correct parts. Or that “the professional at the repair center” is actually an expert. Sorry done with rant!!!
 

Neil Mullins

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OT here a bit but a view of a small part of what the 51 year old 106 handles
 

jkoenig

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Jim Koenig Halfway between Harvester, MO and Cadet, MO
Anyway, I'll have one heck of a nice machine for only $300 and maybe another $100 in gaskets and breather kit plus my time.
Yes you will! Good score, and good job figuring it out. Does that fabbed deck spin the blades faster than a sheet metal deck? I think they are legally allowed to.
 
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Harry Bursell
David - even tho Neil may think otherwise, I now think YOU have seen (discovered) it all.
It's just really amazing you figured it out, and Matt G provided some real verification info to support it.
:lurking:
 

jkoenig

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Jim Koenig Halfway between Harvester, MO and Cadet, MO
Since David has resolved his problem, I will hijack his thread a bit. This thread brings up a related automotive pet peeve of mine. My wife and son both bought used Audi’s that came with NO DIPSTICK!!!

You have to view the oil level in the touchscreen. You can calibrate the “full” oil level with a few clicks, regardless of the actual volume of oil. Fortunately, the forum community has figured out what dipstick fits, and we have now installed them in both cars.
 

Neil Mullins

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David - even tho Neil may think otherwise, I now think YOU have seen (discovered) it all.
It's just really amazing you figured it out, and Matt G provided some real verification info to support it.
:lurking:
No I totally agree that David has it figured out. My previous post was more going toward the possibility that you can't depend totally on the repair shops.
 

dschwandt

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David Schwandt
Yes, that 54" deck does an awesome job!
 

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