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Mikes Very Own 169 Refurbish

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Ah Mike - "pop a cork"????? YOU DA** RIGHT!!!!!
That engine was running when you got the 169 from my son, although if I recall it did smoke a little.
There are alot of discussions on here about the problem you were having. It's sad that a rod finally let go. Maybe that was the whole problem to begin with? What's the chance that you could tie up somehow with Kenny Weimann over in Trumbull, CT???? He's been thru alot of these engines now.
I'm hopeful you'll be able to do the right thing.
 

mfrade

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Do the right thing? Removing a Kohler and installing a Kubota could very well be the right thing! I am not doubting my skills in this rebuild. I am doubting the parts I used. And I'm fearful it'll just happen again. Anyway, once the snow melts back I'll be able to get it into the shop and open the motor up and see what the damage really is.
 

Allenpatterson

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And just to come full circle.. I used the 169 to throw our 2 feet of snow out of the way. As usual it did the crank and stop when it fired the cylinder. Took about 30 or 40 minutes to get it warm enough to start.. About an hour in... it "popped" and I think it snapped the conn rod. I dragged it off the road and it sits in the driveway. I actually am so disgusted with this one..
The K301 in my 129 does about the same thing when starting or at least when it does when it's cold outside. It was -8°F when I got home from work the other morning and needed to clean the driveway out with the snow thrower. So I'm guessing it was probably down close to single digit temps inside my uninsulated pole barn where the cub is parked if it was that cold outside. It loses just about all momentum from the starter when the engine fires just like you describe. My battery checks out good and even when hooked to my small battery charger set to the highest setting which is "50amp/engine start" it still isn't enough boost to power the starter through when the engine fires. Had to resort to jumping it from my pickup to turn it over quicker and get it running. Once the engine is warmed up you can shut the tractor down and it will restart by just giving the key a quick bump. I originally thought I was still having a timing issue but I have done the static timing twice now and have gotten it as close as I think I can unless my points have moved or something? Being that it restarts so quickly when warm I think I am okay on my timing but maybe my decompression is in need of repair or adjusting also? If the decompression is not my issue I am stumped as to why it pretty much stops cranking when the engine fires or is it because of the cold and having to spin the hydraulic pump and that cold hydraulic oil too? I'm curious if your 169 started decent in warmer weather and did it also restart very easily once the tractor has ran and things were warmed up as mine seems to do?
 

mfrade

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yeah, it starts nicely when the temps are above 60... well it used to! I blame the compression release coming off to early, I think it needs a couple hundred rpm more to make the starter more effective. I've tried 3 or 4 different SG's and they all do the same thing. I was just thinking out loud that perhaps a smaller pulley on the SG would make it easier to continue turning rather than stopping to turn at all.?.?
 

hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Hey Mike - please don't go putting a Kubota in a 169. With your engine rebuilding skills I'm sure you can do the K341A again as you said, and I think you can find good parts to use as well. I'm sure interested to know what happened once you open it up. I'm guessing the snow will be melted back in about a month.
 

Allenpatterson

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yeah, it starts nicely when the temps are above 60... well it used to! I blame the compression release coming off to early, I think it needs a couple hundred rpm more to make the starter more effective. I've tried 3 or 4 different SG's and they all do the same thing. I was just thinking out loud that perhaps a smaller pulley on the SG would make it easier to continue turning rather than stopping to turn at all.?.?
Not a bad idea with the smaller pulley theory, could be onto something there? I always thought to myself, if only I had more starter rpms to aid in cold weather starting. I experienced hard cold weather strating with my 105 also but that engine is also very tired and overdue for a rebuild. It was in the mid 20's yesterday morning when I got home from work and went to fire up the 129 to clear some snow that had blown back in the driveway and it still took more cranking than I would have liked to get it running but now it acted like my timing was off again also. Towards the end of my cranking before it actually decided to run it sounded like a couple backfires out the carb again so I guess I better recheck timing again and reset if necessary. Still started back up instantly though after shutting it off once warmed up. My only repower idea so far has been to use an AQS k-series engine in a 1X9 series cub in the future just because I like the looks of the 1X8/1X9 series but thought maybe I could get better starting from a quiet line engine. I have a wheel horse model 416-8 with a k341 and that engine seems to crank with better speed and starts easily. I hope you decide to keep the 169 around and tackle the rebuild again or even the repower! I understand the frustration though, every time I think I'm about finished with the 129 yet another thing comes up needing repairs, replaced, or adjustments 🤦‍♂️. Good thing I haven't kept track of the money I have put into it so far and all that is to come in the future.
 

mfrade

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For me the issue with the 169 is two fold. 1, the parts availability - using aftermarket may have just made things worse.. and more importantly, I hate to run it! It vibrates enough that it numbs my feet out! If I do re-assemble it with the Kohler, I may just put the balance gears back in.

Or I'll just part it all out and wipe my hands clean of it!
 

bfolkersma

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Benjamin Theodore Folkersma
If your cub cadet cranks and then stops then the ACR isn't releasing enough compression. I was working on my cousin's 1450 and it would do the same thing. We were rebuilding the motor and found out the ACR tab was bent down further than the parts motor we have. We swapped the cams while we were at it and now it turns over really well now.
 

mkeller

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Marvin keller
Check breaker plunger rod if it's aluminum replace it !!!! with a new one there's still lot's of kohlers out there with the original ones In them.
 

mfrade

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If your cub cadet cranks and then stops then the ACR isn't releasing enough compression. I was working on my cousin's 1450 and it would do the same thing. We were rebuilding the motor and found out the ACR tab was bent down further than the parts motor we have. We swapped the cams while we were at it and now it turns over really well now.

We agree with you. But the reaction is worse when it's cold ( less then 60 degrees it seems) If it's above that temp, the motors start & run fine.
 

bfolkersma

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Benjamin Theodore Folkersma
That is because of two things. First the cooler the air is the more dense it is which makes it harder to compress, and second motor oil gets thicker as well. Kohler wants the ACR to open the exhaust valve .031 to .042 they also say the tab can be bent only four times before it will break.
 

dschwandt

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David Schwandt
That is because of two things. First the cooler the air is the more dense it is which makes it harder to compress, and second motor oil gets thicker as well. Kohler wants the ACR to open the exhaust valve .031 to .042 they also say the tab can be bent only four times before it will break.
Are the valves adjusted correctly and not hanging up??
 

jkoenig

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Jim Koenig Halfway between Harvester, MO and Cadet, MO
MIke,
Digger has a Kohler rod listed if the aftermarket parts are what are keeping you from rebuilding for yourself. David Kirk should be able to help with the vibration issue once you get it apart. I think there must have been something wrong making yours shake so badly, but what do I know about singles? I run a twin.
NOS Kohler STANDARD Connecting Rod PN/ IH-61583-C91 KH-45-067-01 USE KH 45-067-22
Fits 169 and 1650
$101.00

 

mfrade

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Mike Frade
Last weekend I did manage to tow it up to the shop and got it out of the weather. I've been working in Milwaukee the past weeks so no time to open things up. Other guys have complained about the vibes as well as myself. I think Steve B had a 169 and sent it down the road for the same reason.. but my memories are not as crisp as they once were... Once we open it up we'll see what's left and if there's anything to work with.
 

mfrade

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Mike Frade
So I have some of my answers.. like I thought, it broke the conn rod... and hurt the crank journal as well.
20220305_160510.jpg
20220305_160520.jpg
20220305_160542.jpg
 

jkoenig

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Jim Koenig Halfway between Harvester, MO and Cadet, MO
Is that crank damage, or aluminum deposit?

I mean man that stinks! Is that crank damage or aluminum deposit?

And wow is that con rod broken!
 
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