Articulated Cubs

[tturner]

Not be overloading the forum with pictures- but this is the style that I am wanting to build in the near future. A couple months ago Kraig posted a tractor IDENTICAL to the one I have had drawn out for years- I had never seen it this mans tractor before. It was named "Twin Hydropstatic 149." I have a picture but I don't want to post because of my earlier pictures today- I remember dial up and hated when there were pictures involved with a webpage. The pic is kinda rough because at the time (last year) I didn't know how to do 3-D CAD/CAM (we use Autocad 2005)

 

[sblunier]

Jim,

That Sunstrand 15 is probably what JD used on their tractors, they run the Dana rear axle.

 

[jegstad]

Terry, I've looked at a lot of motors like that. In order to couple it to the cub rearend you need a 12 tooth output gear that mates with the bull gear in the rearend. So the choices are to take a keyed-shaft motor and put a gear on it, build some sort of adapter that has a gear on it, or find a motor that already has the gear. Let me walk you down the path I have taken.

Last April 23 I picked up a copy of the Saur Danfoss tech manual from this or the other cub forum and the word at that time was that the cub hydro was a series 15 and this was the manual for it. The manual shows pumps, motors, and transmissions for their 15 and 70 series. It has specs and dimensions. Today I rechecked the dimensions they show for the series 15 "U" style transmission and it matches the spare cub unit I have as far as I can tell. Taking it one step further in the manual last April, I looked at their motors and the 15-3034 looks like it matches the cub mounting. The gear (style G) protrudes the flange by the same dimension, the number of teeth is the same, and the gear diameter is the same. The motor has mounting holes on the flange so the case would need to be drilled and tapped for bolts, otherwise it looks like a simple mounting job.

So that is why I mentioned that model number. I figured if I couldn't find one cheap I would try to machine a case that would accept the cub motor internals. I was in the process of trying to figure out how I could do that with the limited tooling I have (drill press, files, etc) when my son stumbled across a small milling machine in an auction and got it cheap. So now I have the means to try to build a case when I get it up and running. Unless, of course I could find the SD part.

So that's how I got where I am at. The reason for starting this thread was so we could discuss these without bothering the main discussion and because I have limited resources that drags out the actual building process, so it will take me some time and there might be someone out there that has an easier solution. In order to preserve the cub drive design and components I have avoided Jim Land's approach for now, although that may be model #2 or 3 for me if I ever get model 1 done.

 

[tcbusch]

Jim,
Actually I was thinking of coupling the hydraulic gear motor directly to the existing hydro input where the drive shaft couples. I know this may seem odd. You would take rotary motion to hydraulic pressure to rotary motion to hydraulic pressure to rotary motion. You will loose power because of inefficiencies. However, If you already have 2 hydro's then this is an easy fit. I was thinking the 2 hydraulic gear motors, one for each axle, could be ran in series. This should ensure equal speed between the motors. For a garage shop this would be the easiest, 2 couplings and 2 hydraulic gear motors and your done. Then 1 big hydraulic pump on the
14HP Kohler to run the drive-train and the bucket.

 

[jegstad]

Terry, Whow! an all-hydraulic driveshaft/u-joint. Safe as can be and simple. Who cares about a little inefficiency when you are playing around. Let me know your progress.

 

[tturner]

Another possible place to look for motors are the reel motors off of the bean platforms. Our 810 & 820 bean platform motors look like they may work. The 810 platforms are almost never used; so their motors may be an economical option. Het, I may be really wrong too. Tyler

 

[tcbusch]

I dont actually have any parts.

I was going to come up with the design then spend the next couple of years finding parts.

 

[tturner]

Years? You gotta move faster than that

 

[farmall gray]

Scott Croonquist, the builder of the 100 articlated cub sent me this e-mail.

"Todd,

You're all wet. The front end is a geardrive turnned around, the shifter is in the stock location with rods controling its movement. The filter you see is the return filter for the hydralics on the tractor, as the tranny is used as a resivour. You are correct that it feeds the "rear" rearend off the pinion shaft from the front. Fell free to post this if anyone else is interested.

Scott Croonquist"

 

[mhomrighausen]

Jim E. Please let me know if you receive my e:mail I just sent. My computer is not the greatest in the world. Anyway I hope the info that I sent will help you. I am still learning (A LOT to learn).

One question for all discussing building an articulated or Four wheel Drive Hydro Cub Cadet. Has anyone considered contacting Sauer Danfoss for technical support? Not to be rude or anything however I am sure they would be very willing to provide tech help with or feasibility.

One more quick sugestion... with Plow Day approaching and Ames being less than one hundred miles from Rockford... maybe some would like to setup a tour of the plant. It would also be a chance to see the hydro Original. :+)

 

[jland]

The place I purchased my pump from was more than helpful in helping get the correct size for what I needed. We exchanged several calls and over 25 e-mails. Might be worth a shot to call them..

 

[mhomrighausen]

The people at Sauer are super and it is a great place to work. The General Information number is 515-239-6000. You can inquire as to a department or someone able to help with your questions.

Also, I have inquired if it is still possible to purchase a complete hydro for a Cub Cadet. I was told that I needed a model number so that it could be referenced as to availability. I do not have any numbers to do that. If anyone would want to call the above number and ask for the ECS building (parts warehouse). Someone there will either be able to help you out or put you in touch with one of the distributors that handle Sauer products such as Sunsource in Granite City, Minnesota. Which one may try first if they desire. I apologize for not having their number. One more thing. Awhile back someone, I believe it was Todd Markle inquired about getting implement relief springs. I would again suggest trying the above mentioned. Hope this helps.

 

[mcreswick]

if you guys wanna see 4x4 garden tractors, head out to the quad city downs in moline illinios on the first weekend of june

I am involved with the iowa state 1/4 scale tractor pulling team and the 2003 and 2004 tractors are running modified cub rearends

we are also running the most current version of the sauer tranny with a slight twist, all I can tell you is that the tractor is a hydro-mechanical, not a hydrostat

this year we are working on our 3rd 4x4 tractor, but we are getting away from the cub parts

we don't build articulated tractors because the rules don't allow it

if your more curious here's the ISU team website

http://www.abe.iastate.edu/cyclonepowerpullers/

here is the stuff about our competition

http://www.asae.org/students/tractor/asaecomp.html

you might get a few good ideas looking at what has already been done
Matt

 

[digger]

OH Man!
I can see Wyatt's post coming on this deal, grin

 

[kmcconaughey]

Here's one of several photos that Art A. took last summer at the ASAE Tractor Pulls in Davenport IA.

 

[dross]

Hi! Hows it going. The original question included
"How would IH have done it?" Nobody has mentioned the 4100 series. I know it isn't articulated. It is, however, how they did thier first 4X4. Steering the front and back pairs seprate can be interesting. Just thinking out loud really.

 

[jland]

Finally got my wheels.
Also picked up a plasma cutter. I don't know how I lived without this thing so long!

Im hoping this week I can get the frame made and axles. I only get 4-5 hours a nite to work on it so progress will be slow.

Im still trying to figure out on paper where my steering cylinders are going to mount. I should have taken geometry in school!

 

[kmcconaughey]

Land Pride Gondo Preview

 

[wcompton]

Matt C-
Nice to see someone updated the pulling page. I was one of the few that built "Cyko". Looks like they let you guys build 4wd tractors now, don't know if they upped the weight limits, but if they didn't you guys must do a great deal of work keeping things light. Between the (six?) of us I'd say from Oct/Nov right up to the pull we were putting MANY MANY hours in on the tractor, it was fun but very time consuming.

It was a pretty good time, we didn't do too bad

Did anyone finish building the dyno with the Sauer pump back in the Hydraulics Lab?

Edit:
If you wany I still have ALL the Pro/E work on CD, it's probably not use though. And on the "99" page it's "Hennis" not "Harris"

(Message edited by wcompton on January 18, 2005)

(Message edited by wcompton on January 18, 2005)

 

[lelder]

I read with interest the post regarding the use of hydraulic motors, I have thought of using a hydraulic motor to drive a standard transmission, however I have not been able to locate data to properly select a motor sufficient to replace a gas engine of 14 HP, I have read it would take a 18 2/3 HP Hyd. Motor.
Most Hyd. Motors are rated by torque in (in-lbs.), does anyone have a formula to determine HP, or what in-lbs. of torque you would need in a Hyd. Motor.