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Archive through September 15, 2004
- Thread starter sblunier
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
E
ebailey
Guest
I'll do that Steve, thanks. Picked up some new grade 8 bolts too. Hope this solves the problem.
Thanks again.
Eric
Thanks again.
Eric
rchristensen
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- Aug 12, 2006
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- displayname
- Richard Christensen
Eric B.
I always run a tap through all the threads on the block before I replace the head gasket and usually find one or two around the exhaust that are full of gunk. I feel like I get a better torque reading when the threads are all clean. Just my .02 cents, you may have already done that.
I always run a tap through all the threads on the block before I replace the head gasket and usually find one or two around the exhaust that are full of gunk. I feel like I get a better torque reading when the threads are all clean. Just my .02 cents, you may have already done that.
Eric - the deck height on a Kohler is Zero.... piston & deck is flush. If You kissed the head You have a broken connecting rod....Head gasket thickness is Your clearance distance.. No CI head either.... Heat transfer would stink. Only reason to replace the head is if the plug threads are stripped.... but I have a K-301 with D-9 (18mm) Champion plug in it instead of the H10 (14mm) so that isn't even a reason to buy new. Welding shop can weld up a burned out area if the head got "Torched" In that reqard alum. is MUCH prefered to CI by the High $$ race car guys, just because it's so easy to fix.
Eric-
What Dennis, Richard, and Steve said- I'll add caveat that I always chase ALL the engine threads, as they all seem to end up being haven for 'illegal aliens', and always mess up torque values.
Make sure that your replacement bolts are of same quality to the original head-bolts... or just re-use the originals... chances aren't very good that there's any 'strech' to be concerned with- they're not under that much load, and they're not designed-stretch fasteners like current automotives. Furthermore, the thread dimensions of many 'average' bolts just isn't up to tolerances with 'real' fasteners... I've found that the garden-variety graded bolts available at most places will mate very well with their own nuts, but the threads won't fit tapped holes very well. I'm not typically a stickler for thread precision, but having marginal thread contact patterns in comparatively hard-to-replace items just doesn't sit well with me.
As Steve noted- without retorquing (per the Kohler manual- download one from Kohlerengines.com!), the cylinder head won't transfer heat properly, and you'll get a gasket blowout. Running a thicker gasket won't help you either- it'll simply allow for more variation in compaction, meaning less-constant thermal transfer, and more susceptability to temporary thermal deformation.
And as Dennis noted- there's no Cast Iron heads... that'd be a step backward in technology, really. The aluminum head has a higher coefficient of thermal transfer... it accepts waste heat from the combustion chamber, and passes it to the atmosphere. The head also accepts heat from the spark plug, and passes it to the atmosphere. In an air-cooled engine, faster is better. Cast iron won't pass the heat as fast, and as a result, you'd get plenty of preignition problems... this is why you just won't find a cast-iron head on an air-cooled engine made after oh... 1948 or so...
Sounds like your engine took a little hurt from having poor airflow, which distorted the head a tad (and probably insufficient bolt torque) caused the gasket blowout.
Scrape out any stray carbon, chase the threads with a tap, clean the original bolts, install a new stock gasket, Put it all back together right, with the original bolts, and torque according to the book, start-run it for the prescribed time, then re-torque, then live long and prosper! V
(Message edited by dkamp on September 15, 2004)
What Dennis, Richard, and Steve said- I'll add caveat that I always chase ALL the engine threads, as they all seem to end up being haven for 'illegal aliens', and always mess up torque values.
Make sure that your replacement bolts are of same quality to the original head-bolts... or just re-use the originals... chances aren't very good that there's any 'strech' to be concerned with- they're not under that much load, and they're not designed-stretch fasteners like current automotives. Furthermore, the thread dimensions of many 'average' bolts just isn't up to tolerances with 'real' fasteners... I've found that the garden-variety graded bolts available at most places will mate very well with their own nuts, but the threads won't fit tapped holes very well. I'm not typically a stickler for thread precision, but having marginal thread contact patterns in comparatively hard-to-replace items just doesn't sit well with me.
As Steve noted- without retorquing (per the Kohler manual- download one from Kohlerengines.com!), the cylinder head won't transfer heat properly, and you'll get a gasket blowout. Running a thicker gasket won't help you either- it'll simply allow for more variation in compaction, meaning less-constant thermal transfer, and more susceptability to temporary thermal deformation.
And as Dennis noted- there's no Cast Iron heads... that'd be a step backward in technology, really. The aluminum head has a higher coefficient of thermal transfer... it accepts waste heat from the combustion chamber, and passes it to the atmosphere. The head also accepts heat from the spark plug, and passes it to the atmosphere. In an air-cooled engine, faster is better. Cast iron won't pass the heat as fast, and as a result, you'd get plenty of preignition problems... this is why you just won't find a cast-iron head on an air-cooled engine made after oh... 1948 or so...
Sounds like your engine took a little hurt from having poor airflow, which distorted the head a tad (and probably insufficient bolt torque) caused the gasket blowout.
Scrape out any stray carbon, chase the threads with a tap, clean the original bolts, install a new stock gasket, Put it all back together right, with the original bolts, and torque according to the book, start-run it for the prescribed time, then re-torque, then live long and prosper! V
(Message edited by dkamp on September 15, 2004)
J
jshafer
Guest
Hello all. Been a long time between posts. Since my last activity here I traded a '40's vintage Farmall H for a 125 with a mower deck. A great trade for me. I also traded for an engine block to replace one that blew out on my 127 dyna plow. I have since found that not just any old k301 will replace any other old k301. The block in my 127 is a k301a and has a different oil pan configuration and block shape. I have read through the archives on the pros and cons of the balancers and will probably leave them off if I find a block to rebuild with.
I am wondering if there is a way to retrofit the old style block into the existing frame?
Any input would be appriciated. Also, I haven't found any info on frame dimensions. Can anyone give me the cross measurement between the frame members for a wide and narrow Cub? Thanks.
(Message edited by jshafer on September 15, 2004)
I am wondering if there is a way to retrofit the old style block into the existing frame?
Any input would be appriciated. Also, I haven't found any info on frame dimensions. Can anyone give me the cross measurement between the frame members for a wide and narrow Cub? Thanks.
(Message edited by jshafer on September 15, 2004)
sblunier
Well-known member
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- Aug 4, 2006
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- displayname
- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Eric,
One more thing, deck the head slightly to true it up before reinstalling.
The process is simple.
Tape a full sheet of 220 grit wet dry sandpaper to a known flat surface (table saw deck, glass plate, well finished concrete, etc.)
Using very even pressure, (and a light coat of oil), more the head in random patterns resembling a figure 8, rotating the head 1/4 turn in your hand every 4-5 "8's". Do this until the head gasket mating surface is bright and free from any noticeable nicks, lines, pockets, etc.
I have also had good luck coating headgaskets with Permatex "Copper Coat" or just plain old high temp silver/AL paint and then installing them wet. YMMV
The bolt retorque after a short run time (about the time it takes to tune the carb and fiddle around with it some) will be the best cure for your gasket problem. Typically the bolts will back off 5+ lbft after a run-in, and will definately need "a little bit more".
Good Luck
One more thing, deck the head slightly to true it up before reinstalling.
The process is simple.
Tape a full sheet of 220 grit wet dry sandpaper to a known flat surface (table saw deck, glass plate, well finished concrete, etc.)
Using very even pressure, (and a light coat of oil), more the head in random patterns resembling a figure 8, rotating the head 1/4 turn in your hand every 4-5 "8's". Do this until the head gasket mating surface is bright and free from any noticeable nicks, lines, pockets, etc.
I have also had good luck coating headgaskets with Permatex "Copper Coat" or just plain old high temp silver/AL paint and then installing them wet. YMMV
The bolt retorque after a short run time (about the time it takes to tune the carb and fiddle around with it some) will be the best cure for your gasket problem. Typically the bolts will back off 5+ lbft after a run-in, and will definately need "a little bit more".
Good Luck
R
rmull
Guest
John- Unfortunately for you, you now know that is why the spec number is important. You probably have a wide base Kohler from a John Deere, Wheelhorse or the like.
Your best bet is to contact a sponsor to get the proper spec Kohler K301A.
Your best bet is to contact a sponsor to get the proper spec Kohler K301A.
Hey Everybody!
Sittin' in a hotel, lookin' at pictures of tasks to tackle. Take a look at this and give me some input-
This lift cyl doesn't look like anything shown in any of my manuals, but it LOOKS like a cub piece... or... started that way... mebbie it's authentic, but has been 'madeified' along the way...
it doesn't disassemble like any cylinders I've seen yet (from sitting here in the hotel room) 'cause there's no tool flats or pin-spanner holes to remove the caps..,
If I remove the hydraulic line from the rod-end, what's the likelyhood that the whole seal-end of the rod will just pop out? (seems like it'd be kinda lame in a hydraulic application, but I HAVE seen some air-actuators that appeared to come apart that way...)
If so, is the piston held to the end of the rod with just a nut?
Does this cylinder look familiar to anyone? If so, what Cub application would it have come out of?
DK
Sittin' in a hotel, lookin' at pictures of tasks to tackle. Take a look at this and give me some input-
This lift cyl doesn't look like anything shown in any of my manuals, but it LOOKS like a cub piece... or... started that way... mebbie it's authentic, but has been 'madeified' along the way...
it doesn't disassemble like any cylinders I've seen yet (from sitting here in the hotel room) 'cause there's no tool flats or pin-spanner holes to remove the caps..,
If I remove the hydraulic line from the rod-end, what's the likelyhood that the whole seal-end of the rod will just pop out? (seems like it'd be kinda lame in a hydraulic application, but I HAVE seen some air-actuators that appeared to come apart that way...)
If so, is the piston held to the end of the rod with just a nut?
Does this cylinder look familiar to anyone? If so, what Cub application would it have come out of?
DK
Dave K.
O.k. Have a big favor to ask. To anyone that attended plow day 3 in huntington Indiana. You may remember my dog Bear. He has been put down recently due to some stomach problems. I'm searching for any and all pictures of my dog that anyone has taken. Specifically the one with my mother holding him during the raffle. If you have any of these pics please email them to me at [email protected] Thank you much.
Dave K - that hyd cylinder that you posted appears to be the one for a Narrow Frame Hydlift. I'm not sure how they come appart, maybe Charlie or someone will post a veiw from the parts book to help with that question
Dave,
Since I know you like those fancy pics, here's another view.
Since I know you like those fancy pics, here's another view.
Matt,
Sorry, non of the pooch, but I have this one.
Sorry, non of the pooch, but I have this one.
Is this him?
Charlie-
Bring yer boat over to Austin and you can test it out on Main Street. The town is flooded worse now than it did in 2000. I cann't even get across town without going on the freeway and it sounds like it might be going under water too. Glad all my Cubs are high and dry, wish I could say that for my basement, been shop vaccing water since I got home from work and running fans all day to help dry out the one corner that took on some water overnight.
Glad that you are blaming Nick for the water in the Valley since he is in the same watershed as you are.
(Message edited by hsimon on September 15, 2004)
Bring yer boat over to Austin and you can test it out on Main Street. The town is flooded worse now than it did in 2000. I cann't even get across town without going on the freeway and it sounds like it might be going under water too. Glad all my Cubs are high and dry, wish I could say that for my basement, been shop vaccing water since I got home from work and running fans all day to help dry out the one corner that took on some water overnight.
Glad that you are blaming Nick for the water in the Valley since he is in the same watershed as you are.
(Message edited by hsimon on September 15, 2004)
tschweizer
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- displayname
- Travis Schweizer
Hugh, quit sending that crap this way!!! Looks like an all-nighter again
tschweizer
Well-known member
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- displayname
- Travis Schweizer
Chralie, you taking a picture of "what not to do"?
