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Archive through October 07, 2004

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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Paul D.
If you want the full size pic, just holler.
22046.jpg
 
Todd M.

Yes the hydro had fittings for the lines but perhaps for power steering, I don't really know.

I also feel its just dumping. Now to find a spring and cone oh boy.
 
Todd M.

Yes I noticed the plugs, one is flat other is milled out
 
Charlie, Paul,
That isn't the chart I was referring to. That one
doesn't show the implement lift circuit. (Working from memory here, don't have the chart in front of me) The implement lift relief valve is in the same circuit as the charge regulater valve. The fluid goes to the low pressure valve (charge relief)
first. What bypasses this, goes to the high pressure valve (implement relief). What is not needed returns to the resivior. If the one valve is missing, it won't build any pressure and just returns it to the resivior. Check with Madsen's
or one of the other sponsors for the cone and spring. When I called MTD about the spring being
NLA they told me to try contacting Sundstrand
(now I think it is Sauer Danfoss) to see if they still make them. I think someone on here posted that they could also be gotten through a JD dealer. BTW I got a ported pump on ebay real cheap
one time becuase the PO had a similar problem With it. He said it didn't have any lift pressure.
It turned out that someone put 2 charge pump relief springs in it. So it only had 150psi
lift pressure when it is supposed to have 600psi.
 
Just wanted to let you know that Steven III worked our in the "plow day" field this afternoon with grandma, grandpa, and great grandpa and grandma and cleaned up all the debris from the tornado. He found a truck running board, siding, lots of insulation, etc etc. We ended up with a pickup load!!
 
Paul,
The parts are still available from JD. Just get the parts for a 140. I had to replace the lift relief prssure sping in my 1650 when I bought it. I put a whole shim kit in it and still could only get 400 psi. I put the new spring in and I had 700 psi without any shims at all. I bought the spring and shim kit frome deere.
 
Charlie,
that is the one!
I can now see for sure how not having the valve
in the side port will make it act. The only time the hydro is getting any charge pressure is when the lift cylinder is working.
 
I didn't have time to go as far into it as Todd did earlier tonight, but I 100% agree with Todd on the diagnosis.

Again, DO NOT RUN IT LIKE THAT......charge pressure is what is used to fill the main pump piston chambers, lubricate the slipper feet, etc.; running the unit with little or no charge pressure risks damage to those critical parts.

MOst hydro operations manuals tell you not to attempt to drive the tractor after a cold start until the hyd. lift feature will function, this insures that you have primed the charge pump and that oil is flowing to the intake side of the main drive pump. Moving a hydro without allowing it time to move oil to the main drive pump is like cold starting your car engine and immediately standing on the gas...not the best for preventing internal wear.

Anyway, let us know what you come up with.
 
Since you guys are talking about hydros and lifts... Is it normal on my 782 that when I use the lift lever that my hydro slows some until the ram maxes out or I release the lever?

Jim
 
Jim,

Those things can happen with hydros, but it's usually the opposite....they go faster when you "deadhead" the lift cylinder.

Good/freshly rebuilt centering springs help to eliminate that, but it can't 100% fix it.

McGiver has a very good write up on the "supercharged" issue in the hydro centering spring FAQ.

The important thing to remember is that the charge pump is primarily there to provide filtered oil to the main hydro pump and it's associated bearings, slipper feet, plates, etc. AND to circulate cooling oil through the system.

The hyd. lift feature is an "add on" function that essentially redirects the main charge circuit flow through an open center valve. When the valve is operated, charge pressure more than doubles/triples. This higher pressure effects the performance of the main drive components especially if there is enough wear to allow any volume of charge oil to sneak past the into the center of the main pump (see the McGiver sections of the FAQ).

I would check/rebuild the centering springs and maybe check the implement lift pressure/charge pressure to make sure it was within, but otherwise wouldn't get too overly worried about it unless it gets very bad.
 
Hello to One and All fellow Cubbers. My laptop is acting up again ( may be on its last legs ). Anyway I am trying to catch up on some of the posting lately right now.

Todd M. If you would be so kind as to let me know just what parts MTD say are NLA for the hydro pump I will do my best to check on availability for you. If the guys informed me right at Sauer Danfoss (my place of employment... Ames, Iowa plant and home of the Sauer Danfoss Hydro Original prototype) that pump was used in several other pieces of machinery such as skid loaders and JD garden tractors. I was also informed that pump is still manufactured. The fellas in Service/Reman said that anymore now when the hydros come in they have so much wear that they are beyond rebuild so they will send out a new unit for replacement. Hope this helps a little.
 
Marlin,
The only part that I'm aware of being NLA is the implement relief valve spring. It seems funny that they would do that. They claimed they didn't show any sales on it. When I told him that I had bought 2 of them in the last 3 years he didn't know what to say. The other funny thing is that
that spring is used on tractors that are less than 10 yrs old. I thought companies were required to sell all parts for a particluar machine for 10 yrs. I'll get the sundstrand
part # for you so you can check on it.
 
Farmall -

Wow! 2 in 3 years. Man, I'd be sure my bins are FULL of springs for those kinda sales.
lol.gif


When I was a mfg consultant, I'd've been tossed out the door for suggesting that.

http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/1000ci.html

Obviously MTD made a business decision. Right or wrong, it's their stockholders they need to make happy, not us
wink.gif


I'll check with my Simple-city (thanks Mr. Houtz, now I'm saying that ALL the time!) dealer and see if they still deal with any such animals. Some had Vickers, but they also used the Sundstrands.
 
Well Guys,

I took the cone & spring out of my old non ported hydro and put them in my ported hydro, the cub moves now. Sliced some washers from 1/4" stock with my bandsaw--- things work much better now!

I'm going to go over to Northern and pick up a pressure gauge so I can set up the correct pressures.

Another thing I have noticed is that the self unloading pressure relief valve that before dribbled oil at startup no longer does.

This is what the forum is all about.

Thanks for all the help!!!
 
Todd M.

When you find the part # for the spring, if you would please let me know.
 
Kraig M. & Jim D.

Thanks for the info on the X82 lift bar. Another question about the diagram Kraig posted. Do I need the #8 bracket to hook it up and are they still available?
 
Todd, on a 682 you do NOT need item #8 for the rear lift. The same rear lift is used on an 1100 it is the 1100, (and possibily others), that require(s) item #8.

(Message edited by kmcconaughey on October 08, 2004)
 
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