Archive through March 09, 2016

[dschwandt]

NF Hydraulic pump mounting issues.
OK Guys, what am I missing here?
Trial fit mount of the unit on the 126 resto project and I have no clearance between the pump pulley and the cylinder mount parts.

I have tried shimming the pump mount up by 3/8" and it looks like I will still have to trim the corner from the hyd cyl support bracket (part#6) and even then, the pulley will be right up against the end of the cylinder.

Do I have some incorrect parts here for this application or what. The belt is a new one from Charlie. I can't be the only one to have had this problem....but on second thought, there is that darn DeSoto out there!!
How about some pic's of this area on your NF's so I can get to the bottom of this.
Pictures are w/3/8" shims installed, if I take 'em out, it's even worse. Only thing I can see to do is round the corners of part #6, but then there still the cyl to deal with. The 3 frame mount holes are correct and were factory punched.

I made a duplicate bracket, this is the original one that came with the unit. I had wondered how that gouge got there, now I know!

 

[dtrend]

I'm having a problem with my 126 gear shifter. It seems to have loosened up to the point of not going into gear correctly. Is there a diagram of the transmission or some simple fix for this?

 

[hydroharry]

David - thanks for posting your questions. I'll be very interested to hear the replies. One think I was wondering about was a "shorter belt" so the whole pump assembly is closer to the side of the tractor and maybe the bottom of the pulley remains clear of the cylinder mount bracket that's causing the interference. (It's odd the IH belt called for is shown as 3/8" x 33" in the FAQ but the aftermarket replacement belts call it out as being 3/8" x 30").

 

[pfunk]

David, in a rush here, but here's a pic of my cylinder mount. Notice the corner is cut off. I think all mine are that way.

 

[dschwandt]

Thanks Paul.

I've gained on it some. I increased then length of my spacers between the frame and the main mount to 1" by adding 2 3/8" flat washers. If the angle was less than that, the cylinder would pinch between the cyl mount brace and the tower. I made sure the pulley was flush with the end of the pump shaft and the set screw tight.

Then, using the Cub Cadet belt I got for Christmas last week and both adjusting carriage bolts in place, but slightly loose, I pull OUT on the rear of the pump as far as it will go and at the same time pulling out on the FRONT of the pump as far as I can. The pump will be at a real crazy angle at this point.

Then, tighten the front bolt nice and snug...then PUSH IN on the rear of the pump. pivoting it, this will bring the unit in line where it should be and at the same time will tighten the belt and give enough clearance at the cylinder end and the cylinder bracket.

Of course, this is all old hat to most of you NF guys, I'll bet!!

I feel like I have been lost in the 60's working at Cub Cadet R&D these last few weeks.

 

[digger]

David S.
You are in R&D territory since the 126 was only supposed to be equipped with manual or electric lift.

 

[dschwandt]

Yeah, but the frames are punched already for the mount??

At least the 2 I have are, as well as the two 125's that I have, although the one is only a frame at this point, it was a basket case when I acquired it and missing a bunch of pieces. I'm using it as a test bed for the drive train till I get the bugs worked out of it.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Don, Here's a link to info and photos regarding loose shift lever:

Shift Lever

It could also be loose or bent shift forks.

Forks 1

Forks 2

 

[dtrend]

Thanks Kraig. That gives me a place to start.

 

[sblunier]

Frank C.

If you use a cone on the jamb set screw you will likely ruin the hex in the head of the first screw. The standard chamfered point screw will bite on the edge of the screw, not round out the hex flats.........like Charlie said, gotta watch WHERE they contact each other.

I'm sure it cost IH more to have 2 different screws than 2 screws of the same type on the line........makes a good case for the fact that there was a reason for the 2 different types.....

 

[eford]

Dave, come to think of it, I remember a hydraulic lift a friend and I took off a 122 as well as on his former 125 and they both had a notch of some kind like that.

 

[dschwandt]

The way it sits now, I have about 1/4" clearance. I'm going to round off the end some before final install. I suspect there will be a little more clearance outward as the belt wears in and is re-tightened.

It runs now, raises and lowers and has no leaks so I'm happy with it. Time to touch up the paint and drop the assembly into the completed frame.

Now, if only the dash, hood, fenders and wheels were painted.

 

[eford]

Seeing how the 1x6/7 series didn't have hydraulic lift, why did they go back to it with the wide frames 1x8/9? I understand with the quietlines only sticking to the hydro's.

 

[eford]

Meaning they didn't want the extra pump anymore keeping the body lines cleaner. That I get.

 

[hydroharry]

David and Paul - I still think the pulley and cylinder mount interference issue is related to the belt.

I see in Paul's pic he's using a non-IH belt, and I also see the pump is positioned at about the middle of the adjustment slots (used for belt tensioning).

In David's pics I can't tell very much because of the 3/8" flat stock shim spacers, but it looks like the pump is positioned at the very front of the slots used for belt tensioning. Also, I do know David is using a brand new IH belt called out at 33".

Paul - I can't really read the numbers on your belt but it looks like it might be 31". Anyway you can let us know how long it is?

Seems to me the closer the pump is to the side of the tractor the less chance the pulley/belt will interfere with the edge of the cylinder mount.

I mentioned before the IH Belt 386160-R1 is called out at being 33" long and I know David measured his and that is the correct length. I also know all the aftermarket belts (Stens and others) cross-reference IH 386160-R1 as being a 3/8" x 30" long belt. I'm really wondering if CCC messed up here and switched to a 33" belt and the original IH version was actually 30".

David - have you got an old 30" belt from your furnace blower motor that you could test fit???? I know it's a real PITA because you have to slide the engine out and back in - but something is just not right here.

Earl F - IH didn't go back to the Hydraulic Pump for the Wide Frame 1x8 (gear shift units), but they did have the electric lift available.

 

[dschwandt]

If the belt were much shorter, and it is an IH/CC belt from charlie, the cylinder would be pinched between its carriage mount bolts and the tower.

Paul, would it be possible to machine the pump shaft housing to accept the needle bearings you pictured in your article?

I installed 2 of the tiny oil seals and this morning I had a few drops of oil on the bottom of the unit and have determined it is leaking a little around the pump input shaft. I did notice that the original deeper seal had somewhat of a metal surface that contacted the shaft where the new real short seals do not.

 

[pfunk]

Harry, here's the belt:

As you can see, it's a 33 inch belt. I don't know the brand. I buy most of my supplies from a distributor and whatever he's handling is what I use.

David, I don't see why that couldn't be machined out. But I'd want to make sure the machinist knew what he was doing. If he screws it up, you're really out of luck. I have a few pumps that don't leak at all, but, eventually, most of them develop an oil film.

And, I checked on that bracket. I have 3 pumps with the notch and two that don't have it. The ones with the notch look like they came from the factory that way.

 

[hydroharry]

Paul - thanks for showing us the belt length is 33". It still makes me wonder if a shorter belt would be better, but it could also cause interference in other areas. I see the rod from your PTO engagement lever runs thru the belt so that could be a problem. The hydraulic cylinder clevis may be to close to the side of the tractor to align onto the rockshaft attachment bracket. Also, the hydraulic lift control handle could be to close and interfere with the hood/dash. All this from a belt being to short. I guess the real answer here seems to be that cylinder mount bracket needs the edge/corner rounded or cut off.

 

[fcurrier]

"Mr. Plow", "Point" well taken on the PTO set screws, thanks! Note to self: Don't second guess the IH engineers. The mechanical front PTO is really a work of art.

 

[lpalma]

David, here is the set up on the 125 I have.
The spacers are 3/4" long,this was put on at the dealer.There is plenty of clearance between the pulley and the bracket.