Archive through March 01, 2004

[rmull]

To clarify my earlier post, Todd M works at a Cub Cadet Dealership, that is why I told him to check the parts CD.

Bryan is right (except for MN,

) that the CC dealers can get a hammer brought down on them for passing out old CDs..

Kraig & Dan- That is the weight bracket I am talking about.

 

[wcompton]

Ray-
I guess as far as oiling goes it's the old RTFM routine. I'll stick by the chasers or at least the a makeshift chaser . . . . and I'm sure there's 30+ years on head gaskets out there that were torqued with bending-beam wrenches, but I DO like the comfort my certified Proto gives.

 

[jrichardson]

Whoa now. I would NOT torque any headbolt/stud while the engine is hot. The reason is that when the bolt is hot it has expanded, and when you torque a hot bolt, and then it cools down the bolt will return to it's original size, and you have just increased your torque on the headbolts. Which would result in an over torqueing of the head... I torque the bolts, then I run it for a while, then after it cools, I retorque the head. Never had a problem. just my .02.

 

[wcompton]

Jeff-
Just to play Devil's advocate, what about the head heating up & expanding, plus the fact that it's aluminum and expands at a greater rate than the bolts?

Retorqing hot may in fact not be torqing enough.

(Message edited by wcompton on March 02, 2004)

 

[jrichardson]

Wyatt, good point, but out of the 6 kohler engines I have, only one has an aluminum head, the rest are cast iron. Considering that a bolt has a smaller mass than the mass of the engine, wouldn't the bolt heat up at a faster rate? Hence the bolt then would expand faster than the engine.

 

[jrichardson]

Larry S. Good luck on your repair. I have not to this point had to replace a shift fork on a runner. FWIW, according to Don Vogt the design of the shift fork is not very strong. I remember a post of his a while back that said he took apart a bunch of Original transaxles and out of the lot he took apart most were broke. I believe the one that breaks most often is the Reverse to 1st gear. The shift forks they make for pullers are built stronger, but are expensive, but you will not have to replace them again.

 

[dfrisk]

JEFF - The cyl. head is exposed directly to combustion gases on one side, BUT also the cooling air blowing over the fins on the other. I suspect it's always one of the hotter components in the engine except for maybe pistons & Exh. valves. Depending on when You measure and how the engine has been operating effects the temps of components. For example at full load the exh. valve is red hot, head probably 325 Deg. F, piston probably about the same, maybe a little higher. After 10 minutes of idling I bet everything is cooled off to 200-250.
The head bolts thread into a much cooler part of the engine and are protected from combustion gas. I don't think weights & mass have much to do with their respective temps. Also, If You have Kohlers with Cast Iron heads They REALLY must be old, built Many years before ANY Cub Cadet was ever built. I remember My Dad complaining about the Kohler engine in Our First Cub Cadet in 1961 and the Bad experiences He had with small Kohler-Powered generators in the Army in WW-II. That Cub Cadet and several after it changed His mind about Kohlers. Pictures I've seen of those generators they looked just like the K-161's did in the 60's.

 

[jrichardson]

Dennis, i just figured that they were cast iron as well. They are "heavy" compared to some of the "known" aluminum heads I have worked with. When I get home, I will get a magnet...

The one I have that I know is aluminum (white powdery deposits <font size="-2">corrosion</font>) is lighter than the others... At least off the top of my head...

(Message edited by jrichardson on March 02, 2004)

 

[dfrisk]

JEFF - Are they painted? They very well could be cast iron. Lot of the air cooled engines used aluminum but not all I'm sure. The little K-91 4 HP mentioned in the Kohler manuals may have been a CI head engine. I don't know, Never seen one! But every CC I've been around has been alum. Let us Know what You find out. Iron head wouldn't cool quite as good as alum. depending on fin design, but I bet it wouldn't warp as easy and backing the threads out of the plug hole would be a thing of the past too!

 

[tschweizer]

Well, I got a lot farther on the 4X4 project today. Kinda nice when things are slow at work

 

[tschweizer]

B&B are right about the CD. This particular dealer is no longer selling Cub Cadets. The CD is not the reason, but it was a similar reason.

 

[tschweizer]

Jeff/Denny, never seen a cast iron head on a Kohler on over 150 Cub Cadet. Not saying they never had them, but..........

 

[farmall gray]

Steve B,
The reason I want to replace that spring is that
I want more lift pressure. I'm using it for something more stressful than what it was designed for. With the original spring it has about 500psi which is within factory spec. I want
to increase it to the later spec of 800-900psi.
I built a 3 pt hitch for it that uses it's own cylinder mounted right under the lift pin.

Here is what it is lifting.

I guess I'll just swap that spring from my 123 since it doesn't need the higher pressure.

(Message edited by tmarkle on March 02, 2004)

 

[kmorrow]

On the CD issue, I understand that MTD is real serious about keeping all that kind of stuff under their control. When our local dealership, which is now completely out of business, started getting into financial trouble they gave up their lawn and garden franchises first (they handled Cub Cadet, Ingersoll, Stihl, and White, best I recall). They didn't really want to let go of the Cub Cadet line, but when they had to start guaranteeing quick repair turnaround on tractors sold by Lowe's and TSC plus carry a hefty inventory of the high-end equipment not handled by the discounters, they had to get out. The parts man later told me that the CC reps were pretty hostile when they came to get the stuff. He said they searched every shelf in the place, loaded up every part they could get their hands on, took the CDs and parts manuals for the IH stuff (believe me, those books were in ROUGH shape) - according to him the only thing they didn't get was a Cub Cadet banner up on the wall, and they wanted it, but there was no ladder in the place that would reach it. He said the rep told him, "We aim to see that you don't ever sell another Cub Cadet part after today!" I know they generated a lot of bad feelings among dealers when they started requiring them to put priority service on tractors they didn't sell.

 

[farmall gray]

My .02 on torquing heads. We had a customer many yrs ago with a 71 or 72 that mowed a lot of grass.
He was always blowing head gaskets. We had it in
3 times in one year. Every time we sanded the head flat on piece of glass, and retorqued it
cold after a heat cycle. Then I tried retorqing
it hot. It didn't come back with a blown head gasket again. Now I always retorque them hot.
I always torque them in 5 ft lb increments when
I put them together.
I run through the sequence at 10 ftlb, then 15,
20 etc up to 30.

Those partsmart CDs are something that the dealer
pays a monthly subscription fee for. They are only
good for a couple months before they expire. They aren't intended
for use by the general public. I'm not sure it is so much MTD, but the company that makes and sells
the subcriptions for the CDs. Partsmart makes the CDs for most L&G OEMS and they make their $ on them.

(Message edited by tmarkle on March 02, 2004)

(Message edited by tmarkle on March 02, 2004)

 

[dkamp]

Well, I'm busy working on a few things- too busy to post pix right now, but did have a minnit to show this...
I've been chasing a governor gremlin... apparently this one doesn't work. I followed instructions posted by a few re. pulling the gov arm, and seeing if the shaft spins freely... it doesn't- it only gives me about 50 degrees of rotation, so the tab isn't broken off.

I pulled the timing cover to take a peek... I can flip the weight up and down with a long screwdriver, and the shaft is still being acted-upon by the weights...
But the gear flops around a bit. Take a look;

I'm guessing this ISN'T normal??

 

[pmackesy]

In Memory of
Tim Mackesy
1/06/1969 - 2/02/2002
Rest In Peace Tim

 

[pmackesy]

In Memory of
Tim Mackesy
1/06/1969 - 2/02/2002
Rest In Peace Tim


Sorry,Its been awhile since I have posted here.
Have been able to keep Tims collection of Cubs from being split up.But not much time to do any restoration work.Hope to have his Original with creeper gear and head lights ready for the antique tractor show on Labor Day weekend in West Liberty,Ohio.

Will post pictures of progress.

(Message edited by pmackesy on March 02, 2004)

(Message edited by pmackesy on March 02, 2004)

 

[mbounds]

Kraig.. on retorque: My experience is exactly as Todd M described. I have never had a blown headgasket after I learned the "hot" retorque procedure. Works on Cubs 'n Lowboys with that C-60 water cooled engine, too. I didn't invent the idea. I just learned it from some very experienced pros and the results I have obtained has more than substantiated their advice. Torque 'em: very warm to hot!!
Myron B

 

[dberger]

Hello my name is Dennis and this is my first post. I have been reading the forum for about six months. I have discoverd a lot of info about my 1250. I just finished a rebuild of the 301,the hydro,steering box and most of the rest of the tractor including paint. The next project will be the snow blower. By the way my $.02 on the use of anti seeze or oil when torqing bolts is if you don't chase the threads & lube before torqing don't bother doing the job at all!!!!!!!!!