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Archive through March 01, 2004
- Thread starter dmorrison
- Start date
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F
farmall gray
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Steve B & all,
I posted last night about the implement lift relief valve spring for the hydro pumps. I tried to order one today
for my 149 and it is NLA. I called CC and they told me to check with Sundstrand. I know the
latest tractors they used that spring in were the 1864 and 2284. Those tractors went out of production in 1997. Now I thought it was standard to provide ALL parts for a machine till it is at least 10 yrs old. I'm sure it isn't a high demand
part, but springs do wear out. And I have bought
2 of those springs in the last couple years.
I posted last night about the implement lift relief valve spring for the hydro pumps. I tried to order one today
for my 149 and it is NLA. I called CC and they told me to check with Sundstrand. I know the
latest tractors they used that spring in were the 1864 and 2284. Those tractors went out of production in 1997. Now I thought it was standard to provide ALL parts for a machine till it is at least 10 yrs old. I'm sure it isn't a high demand
part, but springs do wear out. And I have bought
2 of those springs in the last couple years.
Hi Guys
I'm new here but I do collect and restore antique outboard motors and I have several vintage full size tractors (JD and Ford).
I want to get a smaller (garden size) tractor to cut grass (and play with) and I'd like to get an older Cub Cadet, especially after having read through your website. But I have three questions:
Which of the older models are the best ones to get for 1) mild to moderate work and 2) desireability of having ??????
In outboards a lot of good serviceable motors are available but no one really collects them. I get asked this sort of question by new guys all the time. Also are there any to stay away from??
Right now I have a line on 2, both at reasonable prices. The one is a 122 with a deck and the other is an 86 with a deck AND a snowblower. I'd like the older and more powerful 122 but I'd also like to have the snowblower (Will 8hp do the job?) Any comments would be welcome. Thanks
I'm new here but I do collect and restore antique outboard motors and I have several vintage full size tractors (JD and Ford).
I want to get a smaller (garden size) tractor to cut grass (and play with) and I'd like to get an older Cub Cadet, especially after having read through your website. But I have three questions:
Which of the older models are the best ones to get for 1) mild to moderate work and 2) desireability of having ??????
In outboards a lot of good serviceable motors are available but no one really collects them. I get asked this sort of question by new guys all the time. Also are there any to stay away from??
Right now I have a line on 2, both at reasonable prices. The one is a 122 with a deck and the other is an 86 with a deck AND a snowblower. I'd like the older and more powerful 122 but I'd also like to have the snowblower (Will 8hp do the job?) Any comments would be welcome. Thanks
Hello All:
I added a pair of off-road style lights to my 129. The lights have these plastic grills in front. I mounted them to arms I sandwiched between the frame and the front casting (where the "radiator grill" sits). Problem is they are 100 watt lights and i have learned that I should onlyhave 35 watt lights.
Questions:
Is that 35 watts each for a total of 70 or 35 watts for the pair?
Also, can anyone point me to where I can buy a pair?
Thanks, Fred
I added a pair of off-road style lights to my 129. The lights have these plastic grills in front. I mounted them to arms I sandwiched between the frame and the front casting (where the "radiator grill" sits). Problem is they are 100 watt lights and i have learned that I should onlyhave 35 watt lights.
Questions:
Is that 35 watts each for a total of 70 or 35 watts for the pair?
Also, can anyone point me to where I can buy a pair?
Thanks, Fred
Rob-
Don't put anything on there, otherwise it might screw up your torque readings. Yeah, the stud will probably come out when/if you do it again but a pair of vise grips, penetrating oil, and a box-end wrench will get it set up.
As for the hydro release, I dunno if I'd mess with a lever, it might be just as easy to try to find some decent used self-unloading valves. Only question is if they'll fit under the driveline tunnel. I think I know where you can get some decent used self-unloaders around my area (not my place either)
If you haven't had a chance to see if your valves are good yet, you're welcome to run over to my place to run them on my 169.
(Message edited by wcompton on March 01, 2004)
Don't put anything on there, otherwise it might screw up your torque readings. Yeah, the stud will probably come out when/if you do it again but a pair of vise grips, penetrating oil, and a box-end wrench will get it set up.
As for the hydro release, I dunno if I'd mess with a lever, it might be just as easy to try to find some decent used self-unloading valves. Only question is if they'll fit under the driveline tunnel. I think I know where you can get some decent used self-unloaders around my area (not my place either)
If you haven't had a chance to see if your valves are good yet, you're welcome to run over to my place to run them on my 169.
(Message edited by wcompton on March 01, 2004)
jmelicharek
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- Jim Melicharek
Guys - Thanks for the response on the head gasket, Steven found the post in the old archives you mentioned, seems pretty straight forward. Looking forward to getting it done. Hopefully wont have another weekend of mishaps 101. Besides blowing the head gasket broke to socket extensions trying to get the hydro plug - oh well cant have everything my way all the time. No matter what have time to work on the Cubs beats the stress at work.
Thanks again everyone,
Jim
Thanks again everyone,
Jim
R
rmull
Guest
Todd- Check the Parts book/CD from last year...bet the part was available then.
A LOT of stuff went NLA this year...I am in the middle of redoing a 782D and putting Power Steering on it. Finding quite a few items I have wanted from the Super tractors NLA.
Most recent NLA was the front weight bracket. (holds 5 42lb weights) This fits all the way up to the 1864 type tractors.
A LOT of stuff went NLA this year...I am in the middle of redoing a 782D and putting Power Steering on it. Finding quite a few items I have wanted from the Super tractors NLA.
Most recent NLA was the front weight bracket. (holds 5 42lb weights) This fits all the way up to the 1864 type tractors.
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Dave Morrison-
The 86 is an 8hp, whereas the 122 is a 12hp, but you probably already knew that. Depending on the job you have to accomplish, either should be fine. The 122 will handle a bigger deck, but an 86 is just plain cool with that little 8hp. Alot of people are amazed to see what the single-digit hp cubs are able to accomplish, so don't sell it short. If it were me I would pick the one that's in the best condition because that usually translates into the most reliable...
Craig-
Yea, the 72 is coming along. Ended up having two bolts from the aluminum bearing plate that were just rolling around inside the flywheel. Guess that explains the oil-leak!
A couple of other minor details and a very good cleaning turns it into a pretty decent little machine. Hope to have "that red thing" (Haban Flail-Mo) on it for this year's Spring Break..
The 86 is an 8hp, whereas the 122 is a 12hp, but you probably already knew that. Depending on the job you have to accomplish, either should be fine. The 122 will handle a bigger deck, but an 86 is just plain cool with that little 8hp. Alot of people are amazed to see what the single-digit hp cubs are able to accomplish, so don't sell it short. If it were me I would pick the one that's in the best condition because that usually translates into the most reliable...
Craig-
Yea, the 72 is coming along. Ended up having two bolts from the aluminum bearing plate that were just rolling around inside the flywheel. Guess that explains the oil-leak!
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Rob,
I always double nut the studs and install them first with anti-sieze, but torqued to more than 35 ftlb. Then, with the double nuts taken off, I install the head. I use anti-sieze on all of my head bolts/nuts. Most torque settings require that the threads be oiled for consistant and accurate results...I substitute anti-sieze.
I justify this based on my prep work (chase all threads with tap/die) and the fact that if all of the fasteners are lubricated with the same lube they will not vary in torque ratings any more than a similarly oiled fastener. I have always believed that consistant torque across all of the fasteners, applied in the correct sequence is much more desireable than obtaining the exact torque value stated in the manual inconsistantly.
Hit the head gasket with a shot of copper-coat or high temp AL paint, torque and retorque after a full heat cycle following the pattern, in steps, to the desired torque value and you'll be good to go....wether the threads have oil or anti-sieze on them.
Failure to re-torque after the engine warms up and "settles in" is probably the biggest killer of head gaskets out there.
Todd M.
Never replaced a relief spring....too bad about the recent string of NLA stuff.
Dave M.
86 will probably leave you wanting for power on a thrower, but the frame style is very serviceable and it's probably more collectable than a 122. The 122 will be harder to work on due to the narrow frame design, but should serve you well. IMHO for a work tractor it's very hard to beat a 149...hydro/hyd. lift, lots of features, easy service/access, and plenty of power without going to the "shakin' 16"
I always double nut the studs and install them first with anti-sieze, but torqued to more than 35 ftlb. Then, with the double nuts taken off, I install the head. I use anti-sieze on all of my head bolts/nuts. Most torque settings require that the threads be oiled for consistant and accurate results...I substitute anti-sieze.
I justify this based on my prep work (chase all threads with tap/die) and the fact that if all of the fasteners are lubricated with the same lube they will not vary in torque ratings any more than a similarly oiled fastener. I have always believed that consistant torque across all of the fasteners, applied in the correct sequence is much more desireable than obtaining the exact torque value stated in the manual inconsistantly.
Hit the head gasket with a shot of copper-coat or high temp AL paint, torque and retorque after a full heat cycle following the pattern, in steps, to the desired torque value and you'll be good to go....wether the threads have oil or anti-sieze on them.
Failure to re-torque after the engine warms up and "settles in" is probably the biggest killer of head gaskets out there.
Todd M.
Never replaced a relief spring....too bad about the recent string of NLA stuff.
Dave M.
86 will probably leave you wanting for power on a thrower, but the frame style is very serviceable and it's probably more collectable than a 122. The 122 will be harder to work on due to the narrow frame design, but should serve you well. IMHO for a work tractor it's very hard to beat a 149...hydro/hyd. lift, lots of features, easy service/access, and plenty of power without going to the "shakin' 16"
Dave M., as far as collector's values go, I think the Cub Cadets are like most things - the older they are, the more collectors seem to think of 'em. Thus, the Originals are very popular, as are the 70/100 series. There are also some limited-production CCs such as the 800 and 169 that are kinda prized because the low production numbers make 'em kinda hard to find.
As far as a worker Cub, I expect I'd have to second Steve B.'s opinion on the 149. A very experienced Cubber up Ohio way told me a long time ago that for his money, the 149 was the best Cub Cadet IH ever built. He seemed to think, and I tend to agree, that it was probably the best combination of features, simplicity, and power. I don't recall reading posts from anyone on here who has a 149 that was ever more than temporarily dissatisfied with it, either, FWIW.
As far as a worker Cub, I expect I'd have to second Steve B.'s opinion on the 149. A very experienced Cubber up Ohio way told me a long time ago that for his money, the 149 was the best Cub Cadet IH ever built. He seemed to think, and I tend to agree, that it was probably the best combination of features, simplicity, and power. I don't recall reading posts from anyone on here who has a 149 that was ever more than temporarily dissatisfied with it, either, FWIW.
Dave M:
Being a wide-frame fan, I'd buy the 86 and put a bigger engine in it. There's a lot of things you could do with it, up to and including turning it into a 149. That would require a hydro donor, but what the hey, it'd be fun and you'd love it when you were done.
Good luck with your decision.
Keith
Being a wide-frame fan, I'd buy the 86 and put a bigger engine in it. There's a lot of things you could do with it, up to and including turning it into a 149. That would require a hydro donor, but what the hey, it'd be fun and you'd love it when you were done.
Good luck with your decision.
Keith
D
dcasey
Guest
Ryan & All,
This may be a generally known question; if so please bear with me...
The parts CD that you mentioned, what is it called & where can I get a copy? Even if it was not the most current one...
Before I get the "buy the manual" speech from the "B", I am trying to get enough information to just that. At least, I'm making progress in that area. I have several service manuals, some original issue op manuals, & I have one parts manual TC-113(I think).
Hey, Kraig-- When ya got a minute, would you see if you have a pic of the front weight bracket that Ryan is talking about, & a pic of the implement lift relief valve spring (I don't know the p/n) for the hydro pumps that Todd mentioned for his 149...I'd be interested in taking a good look at these two...
I appreciate your time, guys!
This may be a generally known question; if so please bear with me...
The parts CD that you mentioned, what is it called & where can I get a copy? Even if it was not the most current one...
Before I get the "buy the manual" speech from the "B", I am trying to get enough information to just that. At least, I'm making progress in that area. I have several service manuals, some original issue op manuals, & I have one parts manual TC-113(I think).
Hey, Kraig-- When ya got a minute, would you see if you have a pic of the front weight bracket that Ryan is talking about, & a pic of the implement lift relief valve spring (I don't know the p/n) for the hydro pumps that Todd mentioned for his 149...I'd be interested in taking a good look at these two...
I appreciate your time, guys!
Dave "M",
I'd go for a 168 outta' the 86. Did a 148 quite slick I thought.
Keith,
You had me thinking for a second. I remembered that I didn't want to go to the taller tire. That's why I was interested in the ones I got. Double checked the tire size, and they are 23's.
I'd go for a 168 outta' the 86. Did a 148 quite slick I thought.
Keith,
You had me thinking for a second. I remembered that I didn't want to go to the taller tire. That's why I was interested in the ones I got. Double checked the tire size, and they are 23's.
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Does anybody know why the "86" isn't called an "88", or was that designation reserved for the Olds "Delta 88"?
'Course I guess under that train of thought, the 71 should be called a 72, making the 72 a 74, and the 73 a 76....
'Course I guess under that train of thought, the 71 should be called a 72, making the 72 a 74, and the 73 a 76....
I'm sorry but I've got to disagree. AFAIK, NO company ever recommends torquing engine bolts with oiled threads, threads should be dry. Furthermore, chasing holes with hardware store or "jobber" taps adds insult to injury. Most jobber taps aren't even graded to ISO thread tolerance classes, and as a result, the pitch diameter can vary enough that there's enough material removed that the hole can have a tendancy to strip even under normal torqe. Threads should be chased with a quality chaser set, if anything, making a cut down the side of a grade 2 bolt just to clean the threads should be adequate, we don't want to remove any material, just the junk. After that threads should be cleaned with brake cleaner or swabbed with acetone and allowed to dry.
As for torque, cylinder heads should be torqued 25-30 ft*lbs. Don't take the easy way out and "shoot for the middle". Know your torque wrench's accuracy and range and apply it accordingly.
Sure it's overkill, but the time that threads in a block are stripped or a head gasket leaks and cracks the deck of the block or head, it's not so bad.
Also FWIW-
A bolt torque standard that I still carry around from a previous employer (Deere JDT-904) does state the following:
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
*Torque may have to be reduced 10% when engine oil is used as a lubricant.
*Torque may have to be reduced approximately 15% when cadmium plating or phosphate and oil coating are used.
*Torque may have to be increased 5% whenever a locking element is used.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
As for torque, cylinder heads should be torqued 25-30 ft*lbs. Don't take the easy way out and "shoot for the middle". Know your torque wrench's accuracy and range and apply it accordingly.
Sure it's overkill, but the time that threads in a block are stripped or a head gasket leaks and cracks the deck of the block or head, it's not so bad.
Also FWIW-
A bolt torque standard that I still carry around from a previous employer (Deere JDT-904) does state the following:
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
*Torque may have to be reduced 10% when engine oil is used as a lubricant.
*Torque may have to be reduced approximately 15% when cadmium plating or phosphate and oil coating are used.
*Torque may have to be increased 5% whenever a locking element is used.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
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