hydroharry
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- Jul 22, 2007
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- Harry Bursell
Bill S - I also agree with Dennis' info. One thing Dennis didn't mention is that your 1650 (as well as the 1450 and 1250) were equiped with Kohler engines withOUT the balance gears. Apparently Kohler decided they were a performance issue (which is what Dennis was really getting at - they sometimes come lose inside the block and put a big ole hole in it). Consequently, the Kohler engines without the balance gears would vibrate more than previously and to accomodate that somewhat IH equiped the Quiet Line series (which included your 1650) with ISO-mounts (a sort of rubberized engine mount). If the ISO-mounts fail or are really worn the engine will really shake side to side in the frame. I wouldn't call this vibration but you might think of it as such if using the tractor with this issue.
I happen to think a 1650, 1450, or 1250 are very good tractors if the engines have good ISO-mounts - and also have a cradle modification to the mounting bars - which extends the life of the ISO-mounts and also assists in avoiding shaking.
With regard to the model 149 or 169 you mention, the original engines would have the balance gears and are solid mounted to the tractor frame. Many people prefer this. These engines are known to transmit some vibrations to the operator - and some people seem to experience it more than others. If you have the engines overhauled and use David Kirk's alternative to the balance gears it apparently really helps reduce the vibration - and of course, you don't have to worry about balance gears coming lose inside the block and putting a hole in it.
Overall the 149 is a terrific tractor, and one of the best in the IH CC line up. The standard hydraulic lift is an extremely nice feature and pretty much bullet proof (except for a little roll pin issue). I think it has more then enough power for just about everything you might want to do with it.
I've restored many various models and it's hard to pick out a favorite or claim anyone is really better than others. Frank C points likes the 105 with the 10hp - and he's certainly right. The hydrostatic drive is terrific, the 10hp engine does not have balance gears (it runs really smooth) - and consequently it also doesn't overburden the tractor itself.
Since I moved from the east coast to the left coast I could only really keep one tractor - and that is my 169. I did that because it took me about 10 years to find one, and 7 more to fully restore it (more due to finding the time rather than taking that much time), and also because it's the 2nd lowest production IH CC unit with only 4005 produced in 1974. With all the time and effort I had to put into it - well I just had to keep it (there is a pic in my profile if you click on my blue name).
My very first CC was a 1450 which I had for almost 15 years, and I loved and babied that unit. Yes I replaced the iso-mounts, replaced part of the electric PTO clutch, rebuilt the steering box, and several other minor issues, but it was a great tractor that I put many hours of use into.
If the 149 is sentimental to you as it sounds, then I'd definitely go for it. The 149 is available out there more so than a 169, and the 14hp engine parts are more readily available and cheaper than the 16hp in the 169 .
I don't know anyone that does the restorations of these units as a business. Most of us that have done it know there is no way we could ever recoup a decent price for the time we put into restorations. We're probably lucky to recoup the parts costs unless we happen across a cherry unit not needing much. Good luck with your hunt and come back often with questions. Watch out for the guys that just throw some paint on a unit and call it restored. The hydrostatic units are aged enough that they almost always need the trunion on the pump reworked, the engines should be or should have been overhauled at some point, the PTO clutch overhauled, the steering box overhauled, the Starter/Generator have at least the brushes replaced if it hasn't been rebuilt. This is just my opinion and the problem of course, is that you can't just look at these things and know they've been done. You have to be trusting of the person you're dealing with. There are probably some other things as well but I'd look and ask about these on any unit you look at.
I happen to think a 1650, 1450, or 1250 are very good tractors if the engines have good ISO-mounts - and also have a cradle modification to the mounting bars - which extends the life of the ISO-mounts and also assists in avoiding shaking.
With regard to the model 149 or 169 you mention, the original engines would have the balance gears and are solid mounted to the tractor frame. Many people prefer this. These engines are known to transmit some vibrations to the operator - and some people seem to experience it more than others. If you have the engines overhauled and use David Kirk's alternative to the balance gears it apparently really helps reduce the vibration - and of course, you don't have to worry about balance gears coming lose inside the block and putting a hole in it.
Overall the 149 is a terrific tractor, and one of the best in the IH CC line up. The standard hydraulic lift is an extremely nice feature and pretty much bullet proof (except for a little roll pin issue). I think it has more then enough power for just about everything you might want to do with it.
I've restored many various models and it's hard to pick out a favorite or claim anyone is really better than others. Frank C points likes the 105 with the 10hp - and he's certainly right. The hydrostatic drive is terrific, the 10hp engine does not have balance gears (it runs really smooth) - and consequently it also doesn't overburden the tractor itself.
Since I moved from the east coast to the left coast I could only really keep one tractor - and that is my 169. I did that because it took me about 10 years to find one, and 7 more to fully restore it (more due to finding the time rather than taking that much time), and also because it's the 2nd lowest production IH CC unit with only 4005 produced in 1974. With all the time and effort I had to put into it - well I just had to keep it (there is a pic in my profile if you click on my blue name).
My very first CC was a 1450 which I had for almost 15 years, and I loved and babied that unit. Yes I replaced the iso-mounts, replaced part of the electric PTO clutch, rebuilt the steering box, and several other minor issues, but it was a great tractor that I put many hours of use into.
If the 149 is sentimental to you as it sounds, then I'd definitely go for it. The 149 is available out there more so than a 169, and the 14hp engine parts are more readily available and cheaper than the 16hp in the 169 .
I don't know anyone that does the restorations of these units as a business. Most of us that have done it know there is no way we could ever recoup a decent price for the time we put into restorations. We're probably lucky to recoup the parts costs unless we happen across a cherry unit not needing much. Good luck with your hunt and come back often with questions. Watch out for the guys that just throw some paint on a unit and call it restored. The hydrostatic units are aged enough that they almost always need the trunion on the pump reworked, the engines should be or should have been overhauled at some point, the PTO clutch overhauled, the steering box overhauled, the Starter/Generator have at least the brushes replaced if it hasn't been rebuilt. This is just my opinion and the problem of course, is that you can't just look at these things and know they've been done. You have to be trusting of the person you're dealing with. There are probably some other things as well but I'd look and ask about these on any unit you look at.