Got my MoJack today. Works great.
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Archive through July 14, 2013
- Thread starter wshytle
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Harry B.
Match book cover for me.
My Cubs have no problem starting down to about 30 below. After that I gotta help'um along a little with magnetic heaters and such.
I put new points and a points push rod in the 149 thrower tractor 2 years before we left Spring Valley. So it's going on 7 years and it still fires right off, even in this god forsaken place we live, in the dead of winter.
It's been my dedicated snow thrower since I brought it home.
And yes, that pic last night was that tractor, LOL
Match book cover for me.
My Cubs have no problem starting down to about 30 below. After that I gotta help'um along a little with magnetic heaters and such.
I put new points and a points push rod in the 149 thrower tractor 2 years before we left Spring Valley. So it's going on 7 years and it still fires right off, even in this god forsaken place we live, in the dead of winter.
It's been my dedicated snow thrower since I brought it home.
And yes, that pic last night was that tractor, LOL
It will be 5 years this November since it hit northern ground.
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Charlie - If it starts the way you say I have to assume you're lucky enough to get your timing right or really close. For those guys that ain't that lucky, ya gotta start off correct and it will stay really close for a long long time, like in Charlie's case 7+ years.
(Charlie - I was sorta wondering why you have those A/C or Simplicity rear weights on the 149? I know they fit nice and snug, close to the level of the wheel itself and don't stick out, and what I liked about them is I could add weight to the insides with the extra bolt slots.
(Charlie - I was sorta wondering why you have those A/C or Simplicity rear weights on the 149? I know they fit nice and snug, close to the level of the wheel itself and don't stick out, and what I liked about them is I could add weight to the insides with the extra bolt slots.
Harry-
This is the shroud from a 149 I had in the house. I took the pic so you could see both sides at one time. Decide for yourself.
I have five 149s and about 99.9% of them all have the timing hole in the bearing plate with no plug or hole in the side of the shroud to put it in. I've also had several flywheels from K321s on the bench and all of them have had the timing marks on the backside.
Will that convince you?????
This is the shroud from a 149 I had in the house. I took the pic so you could see both sides at one time. Decide for yourself.
I have five 149s and about 99.9% of them all have the timing hole in the bearing plate with no plug or hole in the side of the shroud to put it in. I've also had several flywheels from K321s on the bench and all of them have had the timing marks on the backside.
Will that convince you?????
John, the curve you are seeing on the Original that Tom posted is the blade bracket.
EDIT: I typed too slow...
EDIT: I typed too slow...
hydroharry
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- Harry Bursell
Wayne - yup, that pretty much convinces me. I just don't remember the 149's being that way and I did have a few of them, and I sure liked every one.
Jeremiah - here's another thing to consider when you're comtemplating repair of your driveshaft and coupling. They did last along time before a problem occurred. And here's where I'd like to add Dennis and Paul.
Dennis and Paul - I don't know if IH had an expectation of how long the tractors may last when they designed and built them, but they did have a reputation they certainly had to be working to maintain. In my view most of the tractors would generally live at least the life expectancy of the engine, which I'm pretty certain Kohler put around 20 years, with recommended maintenance. As you might note from my most recent motto - Old Cubs Never Die (but do have an occassional component failure). I really don't think any are ever really beyond repair - it might cost something but they can be, and generally by a competent owner with general repair skills, mechanical knowledge and understanding. Yes, some things can be improved upon, and were in later designs, but the tractors have usually lasted a long long time with the original design components (an exception being the 1100). So if you repair something with original parts/components, I think you can generally expect it to be good for about 20 years.
Jeremiah - here's another thing to consider when you're comtemplating repair of your driveshaft and coupling. They did last along time before a problem occurred. And here's where I'd like to add Dennis and Paul.
Dennis and Paul - I don't know if IH had an expectation of how long the tractors may last when they designed and built them, but they did have a reputation they certainly had to be working to maintain. In my view most of the tractors would generally live at least the life expectancy of the engine, which I'm pretty certain Kohler put around 20 years, with recommended maintenance. As you might note from my most recent motto - Old Cubs Never Die (but do have an occassional component failure). I really don't think any are ever really beyond repair - it might cost something but they can be, and generally by a competent owner with general repair skills, mechanical knowledge and understanding. Yes, some things can be improved upon, and were in later designs, but the tractors have usually lasted a long long time with the original design components (an exception being the 1100). So if you repair something with original parts/components, I think you can generally expect it to be good for about 20 years.
HARRY - Your comment about IH's anticipated life of a CC may be accurate for some owners. But the old #70 that I just went thru was bought new in May '65. Dad owned it the whole time until he gave it to me about 8-9 yrs ago, except for ONE year, when he sold it to a co-worker of his. The guy's kids abused the heck out of it, and shut it off in the late fall about a foot after they mowed the last blade of grass in the middle of their back yard and the tractor sat there, visible from the road most of the winter. My Dad, never bashful about harrassing people, esp. co-workers, pestered the guy every time he saw him about taking care of the CC, to push it in his garage for the winter. Finally one Friday night Dad took his pickup and ramps to work and the next morning woke the co-worker up about 6 AM while loading up his old CC. Guy came out and Dad tossed him the $200 he'd paid Dad for it and said, "you don't take care of it so you can't keep it". Guy went back in his house with his Money and Dad went home with his CC.
ANYHOW, That CC wore out the factory K161 in three years, the rebuild from a shop in town on that engine ran three more years, then Dad & I rebuilt it again and that lasted another three years. That tractor mowed two large farm yards & lawns and a good half mile of road bank every week from late April till late Oct. or November. After rebuilding the K161 twice a complete K181 was installed and ran for about 6-7 yrs, while only mowing one farm yard and I know it got freshed up with rings and a valve grind at least once. The engine that was in that 70 when I got it I have NO idea where it came from, it didn't have CC sheetmetal on it but it was wore out too. (See why I really don't care for K161/181's in WORKING tractors?) Far as I know the whole rest of the tractor, clutch, driveshaft, rearend, everything EXCEPT the steering gearbox were factory original parts from 1965. I know the steering box was replaced around 1970 or '71. The diecasting split in two when I got the left frt wheel stuck under a 1000 gal LP tank mowing our barnyard. No idea how that happened, but the gearbox broke getting the wheel out, not going in.
So that kinda blows the tractor lasting as long as the engine theory. Tractor now has a fresh rebuild on a K241 to wear out. Hopefully this rebuild will last as long as the last one I did on it, 1400 hours. If that's the case, it could last SON as long as 200 yrs! Takes him 15-20 minutes to mow. After I installed a new clutch friction plate, T/O bearing, all the clutch springs, etc, new PTO pilot bearing, cleaned & reassembled the steering gearbox, and several other things, I'm really amazed at how good of shape that tractor is in after ALL those years & hours of use. It runs/drives like a 2-3 yr old tractor. And I remember what those ran like.
I just checked my diary, I've mowed my 2+ acres 36 times in the last three years, and remember last year we had a bad drought, I went two months in June & July without mowing at all. Takes 6 hours to mow once with the 72. So 12 X 6 is 72 hours of mowing a year, plus 10 hours of aerating every fall, plus 6-8 hours of spraying, and at least ten hours of general usage, picking up downed tree limbs and pruning trees, hauling mulch, etc. So I'd put at least 100 hours a year on one CC. But other people may only put 20-30 hrs a year on a CC. So is the expected 20 yr life 2000 hours or 400? And if you only start & run the engine 15 minutes 2-3 times a year, how many CENTURIES will it last?
Different jobs put different stresses on a CC. Blowing snow is a WHOLE lot harder on everything on a CC than mowing a small lawn. Pushing snow with a blade is typically easier on a CC than plowing with a 10" Brinly.
The things I listed in my post to Paul are things I've had repeat issues with in the 33 yrs I've had my 72 & the 16 yrs I had my 129, and some things I know other people have had problems with of a more serious nature. I really haven't had any problems with my 982 in the 13 yrs & 425 hrs I've put on it. I've done work to it and replaced a couple parts, but nothing is a repeat problem... so far, except the ignition points & condenser on the Onan.
So I think trying to make a blanket statement about, "A CC lasts so long.." is a futile effort at best. Fact is that from the 40-50 original pilot tractors in 1960 until about the Q/L series when they started replacing gray iron castings with die castings, IH was trying to fix & improve the life expectancy & performance of CC's with every model. But they didn't fix everything. About the late 1970's they started to cheapen them up to keep the bean counters happy.
ANYHOW, That CC wore out the factory K161 in three years, the rebuild from a shop in town on that engine ran three more years, then Dad & I rebuilt it again and that lasted another three years. That tractor mowed two large farm yards & lawns and a good half mile of road bank every week from late April till late Oct. or November. After rebuilding the K161 twice a complete K181 was installed and ran for about 6-7 yrs, while only mowing one farm yard and I know it got freshed up with rings and a valve grind at least once. The engine that was in that 70 when I got it I have NO idea where it came from, it didn't have CC sheetmetal on it but it was wore out too. (See why I really don't care for K161/181's in WORKING tractors?) Far as I know the whole rest of the tractor, clutch, driveshaft, rearend, everything EXCEPT the steering gearbox were factory original parts from 1965. I know the steering box was replaced around 1970 or '71. The diecasting split in two when I got the left frt wheel stuck under a 1000 gal LP tank mowing our barnyard. No idea how that happened, but the gearbox broke getting the wheel out, not going in.
So that kinda blows the tractor lasting as long as the engine theory. Tractor now has a fresh rebuild on a K241 to wear out. Hopefully this rebuild will last as long as the last one I did on it, 1400 hours. If that's the case, it could last SON as long as 200 yrs! Takes him 15-20 minutes to mow. After I installed a new clutch friction plate, T/O bearing, all the clutch springs, etc, new PTO pilot bearing, cleaned & reassembled the steering gearbox, and several other things, I'm really amazed at how good of shape that tractor is in after ALL those years & hours of use. It runs/drives like a 2-3 yr old tractor. And I remember what those ran like.
I just checked my diary, I've mowed my 2+ acres 36 times in the last three years, and remember last year we had a bad drought, I went two months in June & July without mowing at all. Takes 6 hours to mow once with the 72. So 12 X 6 is 72 hours of mowing a year, plus 10 hours of aerating every fall, plus 6-8 hours of spraying, and at least ten hours of general usage, picking up downed tree limbs and pruning trees, hauling mulch, etc. So I'd put at least 100 hours a year on one CC. But other people may only put 20-30 hrs a year on a CC. So is the expected 20 yr life 2000 hours or 400? And if you only start & run the engine 15 minutes 2-3 times a year, how many CENTURIES will it last?
Different jobs put different stresses on a CC. Blowing snow is a WHOLE lot harder on everything on a CC than mowing a small lawn. Pushing snow with a blade is typically easier on a CC than plowing with a 10" Brinly.
The things I listed in my post to Paul are things I've had repeat issues with in the 33 yrs I've had my 72 & the 16 yrs I had my 129, and some things I know other people have had problems with of a more serious nature. I really haven't had any problems with my 982 in the 13 yrs & 425 hrs I've put on it. I've done work to it and replaced a couple parts, but nothing is a repeat problem... so far, except the ignition points & condenser on the Onan.
So I think trying to make a blanket statement about, "A CC lasts so long.." is a futile effort at best. Fact is that from the 40-50 original pilot tractors in 1960 until about the Q/L series when they started replacing gray iron castings with die castings, IH was trying to fix & improve the life expectancy & performance of CC's with every model. But they didn't fix everything. About the late 1970's they started to cheapen them up to keep the bean counters happy.
Talking about how durable these c/c are reminds me of when I designed IH trucks at Fort Wayne,the checkers of our designs were old designers and one in particular once told me "if you think 1/4"will work,make it 5/16".
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My experience with these old iron tractors - at least the ones I dabble with is - the engine, no matter how great it is - is the weak link.
Put in prospective, I worked with a guy that was an engineer at Tecumseh. We were talking about engines one time and he remarked that for a box store mower (if I remember correctly what he said), he said an engine was designed for 300 hrs. Sounds pretty cheap at first, but if you think about it, that's potentially a lot of years. For a push mower if a man has a yard and mows it for 1 hr x 1 time/wk x 20 weeks = 20 hrs. At that rate, the mower engine should last 15 years.
So if the weak link in all of these old iron tractors is the engine - then you know your tractor's expected life, at least until the next engine rebuild. IMHO, given the quality of the Kohler engines, relatively lower cost to rebuild vs repower, an IHCC (or even other color) tractor makes for a great platform for a lifetime worker.
If Momma would let me spend the $$$'s, I'd see to it that my fleet of tractors had fresh engines on them - with a few spares in the basement. One of these days it is REALLY going to be difficult to find parts for a Kohler K series engine and for me, it would be very cool to have my Boys tooling around on a working old iron tractor many years from now.
BTW - ran the 126 last night after tinkering with the carb. This K301 engine is a crate engine and has a Walboro carb on it. Fixed jet on the high side and adjustable low speed jet. Can't say that any adjustments made much of a difference in how the engine ran - but it didn't shut off after about an hour of semi-hard mowing. I'm not a carb guru, but what is the purpose of the low speed jet on a Walboro carb?
Put in prospective, I worked with a guy that was an engineer at Tecumseh. We were talking about engines one time and he remarked that for a box store mower (if I remember correctly what he said), he said an engine was designed for 300 hrs. Sounds pretty cheap at first, but if you think about it, that's potentially a lot of years. For a push mower if a man has a yard and mows it for 1 hr x 1 time/wk x 20 weeks = 20 hrs. At that rate, the mower engine should last 15 years.
So if the weak link in all of these old iron tractors is the engine - then you know your tractor's expected life, at least until the next engine rebuild. IMHO, given the quality of the Kohler engines, relatively lower cost to rebuild vs repower, an IHCC (or even other color) tractor makes for a great platform for a lifetime worker.
If Momma would let me spend the $$$'s, I'd see to it that my fleet of tractors had fresh engines on them - with a few spares in the basement. One of these days it is REALLY going to be difficult to find parts for a Kohler K series engine and for me, it would be very cool to have my Boys tooling around on a working old iron tractor many years from now.
BTW - ran the 126 last night after tinkering with the carb. This K301 engine is a crate engine and has a Walboro carb on it. Fixed jet on the high side and adjustable low speed jet. Can't say that any adjustments made much of a difference in how the engine ran - but it didn't shut off after about an hour of semi-hard mowing. I'm not a carb guru, but what is the purpose of the low speed jet on a Walboro carb?
jchamberlin
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Dennis: Good post. I agree, everyone's mileage may vary, but the overall build quality and design of the IH tractor was/is outstanding. They are easy to work on, and there really aren't too many problem areas in unexpected places. After all, engines wear out, drive shafts and steering components are prone to wear and premature failure due to abuse and/or owner neglect (benign or otherwise). All I know is that both my 782 and 149 are "keepers" which is more than I can say for any other tractor or lawn mower I've ever owned.
One item that is bound to wear out, especially if the tractor is left outside in the elements, as mine was before I acquired it, is the muffler. Consequently, I'm looking to replace the blown-out muffler on my 149 S/N 2050047U464260.
The tractor came with the OEM Muffler P/N IH-393840-R91
(Image from CCSpecialties web site)
Juding from my experience with other air-cooled engines, I'm not sure a new muffler will quiet the machine down a whole lot. I would like to install the Noise Suppression muffler which was evidently an option for this series of tractors.
(Image from CCSpecialties web site)
The trouble is that they don't mount the same way to the engine. The muffler now on the tractor has a straight connector at the muffler and 90 degree elbow at the block.Note: the 90 deg. elbow, or "Exhaust Muffler Tube" P/N KH-235692 (Replaces Part Number IH-393621-R1) lists for more than Charlie gets for the muffler & clamp.
The noise suppression muffler has about a 60 degree elbow at the muffler and requires a 1" x 1-1/4" nipple at the block. The nipple is NLA.
Has anyone ever tried to mount the Noise Suppression style muffler in place of the OEM variety? Must I acquire the nipple, and what does it look like? Is there any way to work around the 90 degree elbow I have currently installed in the tractor? Any help appreciated.
I'm thinking the rest of the family, and my neighbors, would appreciate the quieter style muffler.
Edit: Harry, my timing mark looks like Wayne's only his engine is cleaner.
Wayne: I'll degrease the engine before I post more pictures of it.
One item that is bound to wear out, especially if the tractor is left outside in the elements, as mine was before I acquired it, is the muffler. Consequently, I'm looking to replace the blown-out muffler on my 149 S/N 2050047U464260.
The tractor came with the OEM Muffler P/N IH-393840-R91
(Image from CCSpecialties web site)
Juding from my experience with other air-cooled engines, I'm not sure a new muffler will quiet the machine down a whole lot. I would like to install the Noise Suppression muffler which was evidently an option for this series of tractors.
(Image from CCSpecialties web site)
The trouble is that they don't mount the same way to the engine. The muffler now on the tractor has a straight connector at the muffler and 90 degree elbow at the block.Note: the 90 deg. elbow, or "Exhaust Muffler Tube" P/N KH-235692 (Replaces Part Number IH-393621-R1) lists for more than Charlie gets for the muffler & clamp.
The noise suppression muffler has about a 60 degree elbow at the muffler and requires a 1" x 1-1/4" nipple at the block. The nipple is NLA.
Has anyone ever tried to mount the Noise Suppression style muffler in place of the OEM variety? Must I acquire the nipple, and what does it look like? Is there any way to work around the 90 degree elbow I have currently installed in the tractor? Any help appreciated.
I'm thinking the rest of the family, and my neighbors, would appreciate the quieter style muffler.
Edit: Harry, my timing mark looks like Wayne's only his engine is cleaner.
Wayne: I'll degrease the engine before I post more pictures of it.
DANIEL M. - I know IH truck division used to work closely with large truck rental co's. like Ruan and put new styled tractors out to them to roll up a quick quarter million miles then send the tractors back to IH for disassembly & inspection to see what needed to be beefed up. Sometimes just adding extra steel didn't work!
BILL J. - I also worked with a guy who was a buyer at Tecumseh. He said the ONLY engine they made that was worth a darn was their snow blower engine, forget what their trade name was for it.
Dad was a little skeptical when he bought the first '63 Original and saw the K161 Kohler. He'd been around small Kohler powered generator sets in the Army in WW II and was not impressed. He had a ROOF high wheel self-propelled weed mower, kinda an early version of a DR weed mower. The blade was 24 or 26 inches wide, just a runner along one side to set cut height and the band that supported that runner wrapped around about 1/3 of the blade, plus a small deflector shield on the more open side, no other sides or even a top around the blade. Can you imagine a co. making something like that today? It had a 6 HP cast iron Wisconsin engine on it with a small Bendix magneto, oil bath air cleaner like a CCO. Rope start, usually on the second pull. You could mow the lawn with it, or at half throttle it would walk right thru 3-4 FOOT all weeds at an easy walking pace. The outer 10-12 ft of our yard plus the "Back 40" here was not mowed when we boght this house, the prior owners hired a lawn service and less square footage meant less $$ per mowing. I borrowed that thing for a month. Every morning for a week I'd take an hour or two and mow some of those weeds. There was a lot of Crown Vetch, similar to Alfalfa but more viney and tangled, I had to mow it in only one direction, but the tall grass I could walk right thru. This old mower was at least 35 yrs old. Dad used to mow 5-6 MILES of fence rows with it every summer. That old Wisconsin engine still ran great. The crankcase & head were bigger/taller than a K321/341 Kohler but half the HP. Bet it had a cast iron piston too!
I always thought a flat-head 45 CID Harley V-twin would have been a good engine to re-power an early CC with, but you'd need to get some sort of fan & ducting on it for cooling. Then I saw Tom H's Mein KUB, and I think that would be the way to go now.
BILL J. - I also worked with a guy who was a buyer at Tecumseh. He said the ONLY engine they made that was worth a darn was their snow blower engine, forget what their trade name was for it.
Dad was a little skeptical when he bought the first '63 Original and saw the K161 Kohler. He'd been around small Kohler powered generator sets in the Army in WW II and was not impressed. He had a ROOF high wheel self-propelled weed mower, kinda an early version of a DR weed mower. The blade was 24 or 26 inches wide, just a runner along one side to set cut height and the band that supported that runner wrapped around about 1/3 of the blade, plus a small deflector shield on the more open side, no other sides or even a top around the blade. Can you imagine a co. making something like that today? It had a 6 HP cast iron Wisconsin engine on it with a small Bendix magneto, oil bath air cleaner like a CCO. Rope start, usually on the second pull. You could mow the lawn with it, or at half throttle it would walk right thru 3-4 FOOT all weeds at an easy walking pace. The outer 10-12 ft of our yard plus the "Back 40" here was not mowed when we boght this house, the prior owners hired a lawn service and less square footage meant less $$ per mowing. I borrowed that thing for a month. Every morning for a week I'd take an hour or two and mow some of those weeds. There was a lot of Crown Vetch, similar to Alfalfa but more viney and tangled, I had to mow it in only one direction, but the tall grass I could walk right thru. This old mower was at least 35 yrs old. Dad used to mow 5-6 MILES of fence rows with it every summer. That old Wisconsin engine still ran great. The crankcase & head were bigger/taller than a K321/341 Kohler but half the HP. Bet it had a cast iron piston too!
I always thought a flat-head 45 CID Harley V-twin would have been a good engine to re-power an early CC with, but you'd need to get some sort of fan & ducting on it for cooling. Then I saw Tom H's Mein KUB, and I think that would be the way to go now.
jdiederichs
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- Jim Diederichs
Dennis, Tecumseh Sno-King winter engines! I worked there also, sad to see them falter and close. Just too hard to beat B/S on volumes I guess. The 8 HP Sno-king actually exceeded it's rating, it was closer to 9 than 8; when is the last time you saw that on any small engine?
pfitzwater
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- Patrick James Fitzwater
What would cause The belt from the mule drive keep popping off? Started after I replaced the tension bracket on the mower deck. I adjust the front pulleys to the right position. I wounder if the pulleys on the deck could be worn out or something? Fixing one worn out part reveals more worn out parts? The pulleys spin freely as far as I can tell
