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IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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bjamison

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Binder 1650
Quick 126 update: Pulled the head to have a look-see at the piston/cylinder (great tip Hydro Harry on the plug hole not being over the piston), but when I turn the engine crank, the piston doesn't move. The piston was about 1/2 inch from top and I pushed down on the piston to see if it was stuck, causing the rod to break, but it easily slid down into the cylinder bore. The cylinder bore looked great - no scratches or outward damage. The dipstick only had a drop of oil on the end of it, so I'm thinking a rod bearing seized.

Question is - what it the probability that the crank is damaged/scored? I'd like to dodge a bullet and am wondering if I can get away with replacing the piston/rod and doing a light cylinder hone and have a good running engine.

Since I'm up to about 6 kohler K series engines either laying in the floor or in tractors and thinking it's time to buy some measuring tools for checking cylinder bores, crank diameters, etc.

Any recommendations for basic engine measuring, engine tear down and rebuild tools?

Also found a potential 124 donor. Doing a little searching, I noticed the 124 has internal brakes vs the 126 with external brakes. I've got Oscar Will's book, but as good as it is, it is lacking in finer detail of differences between model series. Is there another book I can reference to get this info?
 

dtanner

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Donald Tanner
I think we need pictures ! I was moving some Cub parts from my latest trip and thought some of you might like what I scored.

My shop now has heat for those rusted bolts. this will help getting them out.

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It even had this case with a propane adapter .

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I also got wheel weights ; i IH pair and 4 pairs of home made.

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Now the most important thing is this deck. I hope to install this on my 125 .

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Here is the sub frame.Will this FIT on my 125 ????

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dtanner

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Donald Tanner
I think i can find something to use this on. Might go for power angle on the 147 and hyd lift.
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dfrisk

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Dennis Frisk
BILL - For measuring tools, it's going to cost some money, but I'd start with a 0-6" calipers. Not as accurate as a micrometer but too handy not to have, typically +/-.001" with .0005" resolution, the last place will only be a zero or five. And a 0-1" mic is cheap enough & handy, but you'll also need a 3-4" mic, a 1-2" mic, and you might as well get the 2-3" mic while you're at it. Mic's give you accuracy to +/-.0001".

SON bought all his mic's off e-bay. But you can buy new at either ENCO or MSC, or a local machine shop supply house listed in your local yellow pages.

SON bought all Mitutoyo digital mic's, but you can find decent quality metrology equipment for less money, Browne & Sharp, Starrett, Fowler, SRI, etc. The vernier style calipers & mic's are a lot cheaper than the digital, but there's MANY machinists with he knick-name "ONE-TURN" for mis-reading a mic for a reason. Digital eliminate's the chance of that error.

You'll also need either a 3-4" dial bore gauge or a set of "Snap Guages" to measure bore diameter and then use your mic's to measure the snap gauges.

And if you don't have them, a torque wrench 0-500 inch pounds, feeler gauges, and a harmonic balancer puller to remove the flywheel. You can make your own puller, but a harmonic balancer puller is too cheap to bother making one. You can "RENT" them for free at most auto parts stores. Also a cheap machinist rule will be handy.
 

kmcconaughey

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Kraig McConaughey
Don, that is a Wide Frame mower deck subframe, it will not fit your 125.
 

dtanner

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Donald Tanner
Thanks kraig ; Well that means I could use my 149 with that sub frame ?? Or find a sub frame here for the 125 .Does that deck do a nice job of cutting grass??
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It has all new spindles and others parts , so it should be good for a lot of mowing's .
 

bjamison

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Binder 1650
Don T - That is a mighty nice looking deck. Is it a 42 or 48 inch deck? I assume it is off a wide frame tractor and I'm in a similar situation where a fellow locally has a 42 inch deck off I believe a 129 and I'd like to put it on my 126. My understanding is this deck will fit - but only with the correct deck carriage - which I would think would be a narrow frame one.

Dennis F - Thanks for the info on engine tools. I'll make a list and start collecting.
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dtanner

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Donald Tanner
Bill Jamison

I just checked the deck and it measures 48" . I sure I have a sub frame here off the 125 and hope to install that deck on the 125. If not the 149 will see that deck. My chrapsman I bought in 96 is starting to knock so I don`t think it will last much longer and wanted the 125 to take over the mowing duties.
 

kmcconaughey

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Don, no way is that a 48" deck. Rotate the outer blades so that they are parallel with the rear of the mower deck shell then measure them from the outside tips, that will give you it's CUTTING width. Note, the deck shell might be 48" wide but mower decks are measured by their CUTTING width...
 

wshytle

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Wayne Shytle
Don-

Did you measure from tip to tip of the blades themselves? It looks to be a 42" with gauge wheels mounted like a 38".

Nice haul!
 

dtanner

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Donald Tanner
Wayne Shytle

I had a senior moment on the first measurements
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; I measured inside the deck "not" the blades tips. The correct deck way to measure is 42" tip to tip on the small blades . Thanks Kraig for setting me straight
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.

The deck is in nice shape and a good find.

Wayne ; what do you think of the pump.I think I could add hyd lift now to any tractor using that pump.I have cylinders and valves . lines would have to be made. It might be something to sit and look at with a note pad and pencil.
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hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Don T - I see a tag on the deck. Usually the first 2 digits of the number there indicate the size. The deck does look like a 38 for the 1x8/9 series especially since the gauge wheels are mounted close in on the back and it has the wider flat runners instead of round stock. Also, I see what appear to be mounts for front gauge wheels. Never saw those for the triangular decks before and wonder if they are someones add on. I mention in part because those rear gauge wheels can sometimes interfere with the rear tires so you'll have to be cautious if you mount to your 125. I can't tell from your pics but there may actually be holes for mounting the gauge wheel brackets more toward the outside of the deck.
Now, as far as your score for removing rusted bolts - PLEASE make sure you practice and that you only use it for removing rusted bolts on Cubs. During your practice you should attempt to see how hot and what it takes to cut thru some of your Crapsman stuff, and better yet some green stuff if you got any. But please never never never test it on any Cub stuff.

Bill J - I see your question "I'd like to dodge a bullet and am wondering....". I was hoping some of the internal engine experts would pipe in. I suspect most would say it's not the right thing to do, but I think every situation is different. I happen to know a very very good engine and Cub guy that had the rod in a 10hp fail at idle. He pulled the engine, pulled the crank, used muratic acid to clean the crank, it still measured up good, and he re-installed with a new rod with the same piston and it ran like a top.
Here's my assessment of your situation with the 12hp. 1st, I doubt you have a bearing failure. That would be at the bottom of the list. The weak link in a Kohler is the rod. I've heard often the rod has a "finite" life, not known how long, but it will eventually fail. I think that is what you have. You've already said the engine rotates. If you had a bearing failure you'd probably have trouble rotating it and should get a sense of something grinding/rubbing if it rotated at all.
Now, what can you do? Sounds like you have extra engines and you would like to know if you can do something fairly simple easy without alot of expense. Going this direction gives you a greater chance of complete engine failure which could leave you with a non-rebuildable engine. Is it worth the risk? You'll have to decide. Assuming you do have a broken rod, you could pull the pan and remove the old rod and piston. You'll need to clean the crank journal where the rod mounts before you can determine what you can really do. Can you do it without removing the crank from the block? You'll have to come up with something that will hold muratic acid that you can set the crank journal in, while the crank is still in the block. You might be able to rig up some type of plastic container (resistant to the acid) with some slight slots on the sides so the crank can fit down into it and soak in the acid. Some of this depends on how much aluminum from the rod has siezed onto the crank journal. There is almost always some because of the forces involved and what happens when the rod breaks. Don't use anything else to clean off the journal. It has to have a very polished surface, no nicks/marks, so a new rod can rotate, or it will just fail again. It also needs to be correct dimensions. I'm not completely familiar with how you measure the crank but it's more than just roundness. I think I'd certainly invest in a mic (or borrow one) so you can measure the crank after it's clean and determine if it's worth proceeding. The Kohler spec for crank wear is very very tight, and if you're out of spec I certainly would not recommend just trying it. I do know others that have figured how much the crank is off, and have filed the rod cap bolting surfaces to slightly tighten the rod. I'm talking minute measurements here and others will think it's stupid crazy, etc., but the engine ran and didn't sound bad. I don't know how long it ran tho and it's not something I would do myself. So, can you dodge a bullet with a cheap and easy way out? Maybe. Is it worth the risk? Maybe. Most will say No it ain't. Probalby 9 out of 10 are gonna say it's just gonna blow up again and really quick.
Will my message generate some discussions? Most likely.
 

hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Kraig, Oh Great One Keeper of the Photos - I assume you're working on adjusting your arrow feathers so they fly better and farther in the snow. Yesterday I mentioned the "Adapter Package" is listed in the CPE-2 Parts Catalog, but it's specified for tractors Serial no. 65,458-400,000. I should have mentioned serial number 65,458 was the start of the 70/100 series, so IH was implying the QA suffix "A" thrower should mount to a non QA frame tractor (except Originals), but I just don't see how, and can't imagine what would be in another "Adapter Pkg".
 

mgonitzke

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Matt Gonitzke
Bill-

All the wear specs and instructions for measuring the wear are in the Kohler service manual. If you can clean the aluminum off the crank and it is still within spec, you're fine, but I'm guessing it'll probably need to be turned.
 

dschwandt

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David Schwandt
Question: What would cause a coil to all of a sudden take a crap??
Using the 1200/blade rig yesterday, running great, all of a sudden while making a pass she started running really rough and then died.

Drug it home and got it thawed out. This mornin I Found a loose connection on the starter switch, got that fixed so it would crank and then had no spark to the plug. Swapped out the coil on a whim and all is well now. What gives??
Dave S.
 

kmcconaughey

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Kraig McConaughey
Hydro, the arrows and circles would be for pointing out the pin for the upper link on a QAxxA snowthrower subframe. I did that... Turned out I only needed a single circle. Back in 2010, L. William Rehm (Lrehm) was attempting to mount a QAxxA snowthrower to a 1x2 series Cub. Several of us were assisting and suggesting stuff. Jeff Derstine and I suggested fabricating a set of brackets to bolt onto the frame into those two holes rearward of the subframe, that would provide a Frankenstein bolt. Here's a link to the solution that he came up with --> CLICK HERE
 

sblunier

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Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
If Don's deck was a 38" it would use the inside holes for the grease zerks on the belt covers. Since it uses the outside holes it is a 42". If it was a 48", the outter blades would be much longer and there would be different covers with only one hole.
 

hydroharry

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Harry Bursell
Kraig, Oh Great One Keeper of the Photos - you're ABSOLUTELY the Best!!!! That's who I recalled, but I couldn't recall the solution. Now, I don't think something like that is gonna be in the "Adapter Pkg" from IH, so I'm still wondering if IH actually had something. It wouldn't surprise me if it required drilling a hole in the frame. The bracket to attach a lift rod to an electric lift has to have the top cut off, so maybe IH also had you drill a hole.

Matt G - I was kinda hoping you might pipe in on Bill J's rebuild resolution. Have you done any when you haven't had to remove the crank? And if so, how did you clean it off?

David S - Old Cubs Never Die, but components are known to eventually fail. It surprises me you lost it in the winter. Although I never had a coil fail on my QL units I had heard from others that the coils seem to be more prone to failure due to heat and lack of cooling air circulation around them on the QL units. I have to think vibration would also affect them, but I suspect it was just time for yours to bite the dust. One thing tho, if you're missing enclosure parts for your muffler box that hot exhaust could just be rolling back in around the side where the coil is located, resulting in the over heating I mentioned above.

Steve, Mr. Plow - great info on identifying the decks. Learn something new everyday about these units. Any comments on the Bill J's engine rebuild question? I know you've been thru a few of these.
 

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