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Archive through January 23, 2005
- Thread starter bwatson
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
jhillegass
Well-known member
Jim P.... I'm repairing a similar gear box used on a tiller. I've found that if you have the shaft (#19 or #14) in the proper location, you should be able to install two snap rings (#15) on each shaft. One will be against the outer bearing and one at the bevel gear. In this position you should have a key (#17) located with full engagement in the bevel gear bore and the snap ring will hold the key in place. I think you will want a piece of hard key stock. If you use a softer key stock, it can act similar to a shear pin...giving you some safety (but i don't think you want a soft key).
Terry B
The dent will impede the performance of the thrower. How much is the question. The depth of the dent is the major factor.
My 127 and QA36A (when its operational) throws wet heavy snow (tube snow) about 10' and light snow 20'+. This is a factory stock setup. My thrower has a wide "channel" behind the auger paddles in the housing 1/16"-1/8" deep and does not seem to affect performance much.
Try a torch to soften the metal and slide hammer dent puller, if you can pull out to get a "bulgde" you can heat- hammer - cool to work out the problem. Don't cool with water until your satisfied with the shape, cooling with water will harden the metal, but also make it brittle. There may be guys here with metalurgical experience on how to treat the metal temp wise. Not much room to work the metal from the back side and doubler plate might be in the way
The dent will impede the performance of the thrower. How much is the question. The depth of the dent is the major factor.
My 127 and QA36A (when its operational) throws wet heavy snow (tube snow) about 10' and light snow 20'+. This is a factory stock setup. My thrower has a wide "channel" behind the auger paddles in the housing 1/16"-1/8" deep and does not seem to affect performance much.
Try a torch to soften the metal and slide hammer dent puller, if you can pull out to get a "bulgde" you can heat- hammer - cool to work out the problem. Don't cool with water until your satisfied with the shape, cooling with water will harden the metal, but also make it brittle. There may be guys here with metalurgical experience on how to treat the metal temp wise. Not much room to work the metal from the back side and doubler plate might be in the way
Obviously a LOT of guys have extensive experience with the Cadet. I have my brothers' old 782, approximately 20+ years old. It is red. They had a mower, a pull behind cart with an impeller to blow grass up, and an H-42 thrower. I got the tractor and the thrower, the mower was too far gone after all that service. First question: When starting, it seems the throttle has to be nearly closed, and the choke full out. When it fires, a little adjusting on both the throttle and choke is needed to keep it running. Then, even if it has idled for five minutes or so, when I slow it down and hit the electric clutch to start the thrower, it frequently will kill, prompting me to quickly turn off the clutch and hope to get it before it dies. My brothers got it brand new, and they say it always acts this way. True for all 782's or just a weird one I have? I've been putting 5/30 oil in it to help it start easier, and the prestart in cold conditions is a 1000watt electric blower heater under the chassis with a tarp over to catch the heat. It seems quite toastie when I make ready, but it always seems to need the run for awhile. Are all the Koehlers that touchie on start up?
Another question about my 782/H-42 thrower combination: While enjoying the first BIG snow since I got the rig I had the unpleasant experience of backing up while the snowthrower was in the lowered position. Imagine my surprise to find it half off the front mount, and partly jamming the cross bar that is supposed to go into some alignment fingers under the frame, under the ears. Took hoisting up the front of the tractor to get the pressure off the thrower to pull it forward, lift it up, and re-slide it on. My brother has not mounted the thrower in years, and doesn't remember any retaining bolt to keep in on. I purchased a half-a*sed photocopy of a manual for both the tractor and the thrower from the nearest IH dealer I could find, and must say the fourth generation photocopy is damned poor for seeing anything. And the instructions border on saying "Mount it" and to get it off, "Do the mount in reverse order...." Not a lot of help. As I see it, there are two holes on the thrower frame that match to a set of holes on either side of the tractor's frame. Darned hard to get at, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stick a short bolt through there, and get your hand under to put a bolt on, say nothing of having a way to tighten any nut. Can someone tell me if there is supposed to be a long bolt that goes from one side to the other to hold the thrower on while backing up? I couldn't get a standard Lynch pin through and have enough room for the captive bail to come around and make capture. I did get a little ball latch type of pin (the kind that has a little spring loaded ball on the tip) to go through and hold (for the time being). Advise, please!
Jerry H
I agree and that's what I was thinking is correct. The bevel gear snap ring is 1/2" away from the bevel gear and is almost touching the snap ring from the other shaft. The snap ring outside at the bearing is there, but maybe not in the groove. The shaft does not slide in or out, but I have not forced it at this point.
I agree and that's what I was thinking is correct. The bevel gear snap ring is 1/2" away from the bevel gear and is almost touching the snap ring from the other shaft. The snap ring outside at the bearing is there, but maybe not in the groove. The shaft does not slide in or out, but I have not forced it at this point.
A final question about operation of the H-42 thrower and the 782. While merrily blowing a fine 8" of snow (I like to hear the engine work, but don't lug it down, nor will the belt keep driving if it gets too full, so it was at a sort of sedate pace), I suddenly had no snow throwing and a LOT of noise from up front. I hit the electric clutch, and saw the universal and drive shaft thrashing around. On closer inspection, the drive as it was mounted onto the shaft that goes to the chain drive had come off. There seemed to be a 3/16" machine key which was forced into the groove by an overlying hex screw, which was held by a jam nut over it. I found another key and replaced it (thinking this was the shear pin). I did remark that the engineer designing this was sort of kookie since that thing flopping around with 18 horses driving it would bend the shaft or me or something. The first failure seemed to be shortly after hitting a small dog bone conveniently hidden by the snow. A 1/2 hour later, while throwing some heavy stuff that was about the second throw to reach the edge of the lot, the engine was working hard, the belt starting to slip a bit, so I slowed down the hydro (God I love that invention) and wham, the darn thing separated again. A call to the former owner ( I hadn't talked to my brother in a few days) and he said that it had a habit of frequently shearing the pin, but at the end of the drive closest to the belt drive-electric clutch end. That certainly made more sense since all that would happen is the universal drop down into the snow and stop bouncing around. But why is the question? Could the last shear bolt have been too hard? Is there a "grade" of bolt one should use for safety? Any comments on how to fix the far end of the drive universal other than to put a new machine key in and hope it holds this time? I did note that at 90 degrees to the groove there is a hole through the drive shaft that is attached to the chain gear, and that there is a corresponding hole in the end of the universal, but the shaft protrusion is too short to slide the universal on far enough to get a bolt through that part. Perhaps I don't have original equipment here and it has been "fixed" over the last 20+ years in a non-standard way. Please advise me on the type of shear bolt I should use (and I assume it is close to the belt drive end) and on the machine key failing and the universal and drive shaft flopping wilding about.
Betsy-Something that was slightly overlooked was the question "Why does your mother think that the tractor needs transmission oil"? Did it stop operating or moving? Does it go REALLY SLOW in cold weather? Is there a lake of Hy-Tran under it? Let us know...
Dale R
I have a 982 and H48, the H-48 manual seems to leave alot to reader as to know the IH throwers mounting history.
The solid bar behind the drive pulley fits into the quick attack notchs on each side of the front end of tractor (bottom of grill casting) and the notched arms slide in place to the frankinstein bolts. There should be a bar under the grill casting, that when pulled upward locks the thrower in place. I have a spring (non factory i think holding the bar up, if it falls down the thrower will detach when backing up.
Images from QA thrower manuals show this better.
There are many posts in the archives showing this and someone might have a photo.
sffja io'oie'feijf'a'fif
Snoozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I have a 982 and H48, the H-48 manual seems to leave alot to reader as to know the IH throwers mounting history.
The solid bar behind the drive pulley fits into the quick attack notchs on each side of the front end of tractor (bottom of grill casting) and the notched arms slide in place to the frankinstein bolts. There should be a bar under the grill casting, that when pulled upward locks the thrower in place. I have a spring (non factory i think holding the bar up, if it falls down the thrower will detach when backing up.
Images from QA thrower manuals show this better.
There are many posts in the archives showing this and someone might have a photo.
sffja io'oie'feijf'a'fif
Snoozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Steve B.
Thanks, I was hopeing that I got a pump that wouls work well for a loader.
Now to get down to the local steel shop and pick out the iron for the frame work. ( after the loader funds grow, they took a big dip after the purchase of the pump).
Thanks, I was hopeing that I got a pump that wouls work well for a loader.
Now to get down to the local steel shop and pick out the iron for the frame work. ( after the loader funds grow, they took a big dip after the purchase of the pump).
Tyler, adding lead substitute to your gas won't make your engine run any cooler. How can you tell how hot it is without a gauge? Straight unleaded didn't blow your head gasket. You most likely have either a warped head or it was improperly torqued. Tetraethyl lead was added to gas in the late 50's until the 70's to increase the octane to stop pinging in high compression engines and to prolong valve life. Lead also adds to the combustion chamber deposits which reduces the engines efficiency. Periodically you're supposed to pull the head and clean the carbon out. Its been my experience that lead additives are nothing more than "snake oil". I run 10% ethanol blend with Sta-Bil added to it so I don't have gas go bad in anything. If you can find E-85 your engine will run cooler on it. It will also make less power though. E-85 burns much cleaner. What I have found is it takes about 3/4 to a full turn out on the main and idle needles to run E-85. You can load the engine up with the choke and you won't get any black smoke. I've noticed no difference in starting and running with a healthy engine. The exhaust will smell like a car with the catalytic converter going bad.
Torque Number?
I have the Engine on my 149 Helicoiled and need to know how much Torque to apply to the Mounting Capscrews. The oilpan is Aluminum and my rule of "If a little pressure is good then a lot of pressure is better" won't apply. My book is silent on this point. Can you guys advise?
I have the Engine on my 149 Helicoiled and need to know how much Torque to apply to the Mounting Capscrews. The oilpan is Aluminum and my rule of "If a little pressure is good then a lot of pressure is better" won't apply. My book is silent on this point. Can you guys advise?
Dale R.
The engine should not be at idle when you engage the pto, that is hard on the engine. I engage the pto with the trottle at 1/3-1/2 up, not at WOT thats hard on the pto clutch. Some where in between idle and WOT is good.
It is fairly typical to have to adjust the choke and trottle on very cold start-up. Generally trottle move just up off idle position and full choke, when it starts to fire I will start moveing the choke back inward. The colder it is the more choke you will need and for a longer period, I would think choke adjustment is not need for more than 1 minute. If it is maybe a carb cleaning and proper adjustment is in order and always beneficial.
I have not used my H48 thrower in some time, needs some service. So not too sure on how to help on the drive shaft problem
The engine should not be at idle when you engage the pto, that is hard on the engine. I engage the pto with the trottle at 1/3-1/2 up, not at WOT thats hard on the pto clutch. Some where in between idle and WOT is good.
It is fairly typical to have to adjust the choke and trottle on very cold start-up. Generally trottle move just up off idle position and full choke, when it starts to fire I will start moveing the choke back inward. The colder it is the more choke you will need and for a longer period, I would think choke adjustment is not need for more than 1 minute. If it is maybe a carb cleaning and proper adjustment is in order and always beneficial.
I have not used my H48 thrower in some time, needs some service. So not too sure on how to help on the drive shaft problem
Terry B., for cleaning the carb I would go with the Sea Foam in a couple of tank fulls. Then run every tank after that with MMO to help prevent carbon deposits.
Steve B., nice progress on the 148.
Dale R., I could be wrong but I think the holes in the side of the 782's frame (the 782 is considered a "wide frame") should have nuts welded on the inside of the frame. All you should need to do is get a bolt that is long enough to fully engage the threads. I believe they are 1/2-13 threads. I know that the "narrow frame" Cubs have the welded on nuts.
Steve B., nice progress on the 148.
Dale R., I could be wrong but I think the holes in the side of the 782's frame (the 782 is considered a "wide frame") should have nuts welded on the inside of the frame. All you should need to do is get a bolt that is long enough to fully engage the threads. I believe they are 1/2-13 threads. I know that the "narrow frame" Cubs have the welded on nuts.
Tyler- that's not what TetraEthyl Lead does- go read more about it, write and a 30 page report, complete with an analysis of Kohler valve seat composition and hardness, compression ratios for all K-motors manufactured from 1960 to current, publish it here, and hope your future offspring don't end up with three eyes.
Terry- the only way to clean out a carbeurator, is to take it apart...
Tom wrote:
>"I want to put a sleeve hitch on it were do I get one? how do they work? and how do I put it on? I do want it to match the tractor and I want to use a plow and a blade on the rear.<
You're in luck, Tom- sleeve hitches on IH Cub Cadets match your slightly-later Cub Cadet. The picture Bryan posted for Betsy illustrates a sleeve hitch mounted on a Cub Cadet. There's two basic categories of transaxles- cast iron and cast aluminum... all the early machines used cast iron, while SOME of the later x82's used aluminum. I believe the sleeve hitch assembly bolted up the same on both aluminum and cast iron. IN any event, what you see in Bryan's picture pretty much sums it up as far as the draft-gear goes. There's a lift-arm up top (pivots on a pin between frame rails) and a long push-pull rod that goes from the lift-arm to the rockshaft (thing that lifts the mower decks.
There's hand-operated rockshaft operation, and there's hydraulically-operated rockshafts. Hand-op appeared on virtually every combination, while hydraulic operation showed up on SOME models with hydrostatic drive. If your tractor is hydrostatic, but doesn't have hydraulic lift, you can fit the hydrostat pump unit, plumbing, valve, and cylinder from another Cub Cadet tractor, to get hydraulic lift... and it doesn't even have to be an x82 series- 1x50 or 1x9 can donate just fine also, but you might have to snoop out some hardware here and there. If you have manual lift, and want to run serious implements, you can fit a spring-assist kit to the tractor to help with plows, snow-throwers, etc.
Apostle Ken- 2x4's would be fine- I was thinkin' other things too... perhaps my old gas grill, some shrubbery, the City Administrator...
Herbert- The torque value for fasteners not directly specified in the Kohler Engine Service Manual should be that specified on the standard fastener torque table. In the K91-K341 manual, on page 1.7, there's figure 1.6, "Torque Values and Sequences For Fasteners. Top half of page deals with cylinder head torques and sequence, while Lower left hand side indicates standard fastener torques for all unspecified fasteners based on fastener type, thread, and grade. Don't remember for sure, but the base bolts are probably 3/8-16, Grade 0, which calls for 260 inch-pounds. I used Grade 5 studs, so in that case, it'd be 35 foot-pounds (420 inch-pounds).
Don't worry the heli-coils will be able to take every bit of that!
Terry- the only way to clean out a carbeurator, is to take it apart...
Tom wrote:
>"I want to put a sleeve hitch on it were do I get one? how do they work? and how do I put it on? I do want it to match the tractor and I want to use a plow and a blade on the rear.<
You're in luck, Tom- sleeve hitches on IH Cub Cadets match your slightly-later Cub Cadet. The picture Bryan posted for Betsy illustrates a sleeve hitch mounted on a Cub Cadet. There's two basic categories of transaxles- cast iron and cast aluminum... all the early machines used cast iron, while SOME of the later x82's used aluminum. I believe the sleeve hitch assembly bolted up the same on both aluminum and cast iron. IN any event, what you see in Bryan's picture pretty much sums it up as far as the draft-gear goes. There's a lift-arm up top (pivots on a pin between frame rails) and a long push-pull rod that goes from the lift-arm to the rockshaft (thing that lifts the mower decks.
There's hand-operated rockshaft operation, and there's hydraulically-operated rockshafts. Hand-op appeared on virtually every combination, while hydraulic operation showed up on SOME models with hydrostatic drive. If your tractor is hydrostatic, but doesn't have hydraulic lift, you can fit the hydrostat pump unit, plumbing, valve, and cylinder from another Cub Cadet tractor, to get hydraulic lift... and it doesn't even have to be an x82 series- 1x50 or 1x9 can donate just fine also, but you might have to snoop out some hardware here and there. If you have manual lift, and want to run serious implements, you can fit a spring-assist kit to the tractor to help with plows, snow-throwers, etc.
Apostle Ken- 2x4's would be fine- I was thinkin' other things too... perhaps my old gas grill, some shrubbery, the City Administrator...
Herbert- The torque value for fasteners not directly specified in the Kohler Engine Service Manual should be that specified on the standard fastener torque table. In the K91-K341 manual, on page 1.7, there's figure 1.6, "Torque Values and Sequences For Fasteners. Top half of page deals with cylinder head torques and sequence, while Lower left hand side indicates standard fastener torques for all unspecified fasteners based on fastener type, thread, and grade. Don't remember for sure, but the base bolts are probably 3/8-16, Grade 0, which calls for 260 inch-pounds. I used Grade 5 studs, so in that case, it'd be 35 foot-pounds (420 inch-pounds).
Don't worry the heli-coils will be able to take every bit of that!
If a person wants to put on a Kwik-Way front end loader onto a 149 what are some of the potential problems that it could cause with the tractor? (Ex. Break front wheel hubs??) Are there potential problems with the loader? Also can other attachments still be used-- mainly a mower deck and a tiller?
Thanks,
Seth
Thanks,
Seth
Lonny-
I agree with Steve- Stop frettin', and start building!
With that pump, you'll need to mount the front of the pump so it's shaft is pointing towards the rear of the tractor. If all you're running is the loader, you'll probably get best results running about a 1.6:1 drive ratio... meaning, your pump's sheave is 1.6 times LARGER than the engine drive sheave. Keep both sheaves as LARGE as you can get, for best power transfer and least belt tension. In operation, your loader will only need about 3-4gpm of flow with 1.5" cylinders, and mebbie 4-5gpm flow with 2" cylinders. Anything more will lug the engine. For good cold-weather starting, it's good to have the pump drive disengageable... like, driven though the PTO sheave, if you can.
Also note that most hydraulic pumps don't like having an 'overhung' load... meaning... they have pressurized 'bushings' for bearings, rather than ball or roller bearings on the shaft. Most are designed to be driven straight off the end by a motor, where the only force is twisting of the shaft... not the side-force of a belt, chain, or gear. There's three ways of dealing with this- one can look for a pump specifically rated for overhanging load, one can purchase adapter kits (with bearings on shafts) that bolt to the front of the pump, to take the overhanging load), and one can just use good belt-drive design to run minimal belt tension, and see if the bushing-gods love you.
I did the latter, and used a toothed-belt, and I think they love me. I do make regular sacrifices of Hy Tran and dance around a bonfire to keep them happy, though...
DK
I agree with Steve- Stop frettin', and start building!
With that pump, you'll need to mount the front of the pump so it's shaft is pointing towards the rear of the tractor. If all you're running is the loader, you'll probably get best results running about a 1.6:1 drive ratio... meaning, your pump's sheave is 1.6 times LARGER than the engine drive sheave. Keep both sheaves as LARGE as you can get, for best power transfer and least belt tension. In operation, your loader will only need about 3-4gpm of flow with 1.5" cylinders, and mebbie 4-5gpm flow with 2" cylinders. Anything more will lug the engine. For good cold-weather starting, it's good to have the pump drive disengageable... like, driven though the PTO sheave, if you can.
Also note that most hydraulic pumps don't like having an 'overhung' load... meaning... they have pressurized 'bushings' for bearings, rather than ball or roller bearings on the shaft. Most are designed to be driven straight off the end by a motor, where the only force is twisting of the shaft... not the side-force of a belt, chain, or gear. There's three ways of dealing with this- one can look for a pump specifically rated for overhanging load, one can purchase adapter kits (with bearings on shafts) that bolt to the front of the pump, to take the overhanging load), and one can just use good belt-drive design to run minimal belt tension, and see if the bushing-gods love you.
I did the latter, and used a toothed-belt, and I think they love me. I do make regular sacrifices of Hy Tran and dance around a bonfire to keep them happy, though... DK
Seth- the loader puts quite a hurt to the steering knuckles, front axle, frame, etc, but with careful use and some careful modifications, those weaknesses can be accomodated.
Loaders are kinda hard on tractors, and most of the frames occupy space that the mower-deck needs. The loader also alters the tractor's center of gravity, and the lift-arms/bucket hang out front which can make for more difficult grass-cutting. Also, loaders tend to 'break' things, which takes your tractor out-of-service 'till you get it fixed.
If you don't have a second Cub Cadet, now's the perfect opportunity to expand your 'family' Get one for running the Loader, and get another one to provide parts for the first two!!!
Loaders are kinda hard on tractors, and most of the frames occupy space that the mower-deck needs. The loader also alters the tractor's center of gravity, and the lift-arms/bucket hang out front which can make for more difficult grass-cutting. Also, loaders tend to 'break' things, which takes your tractor out-of-service 'till you get it fixed.
If you don't have a second Cub Cadet, now's the perfect opportunity to expand your 'family'
Get one for running the Loader, and get another one to provide parts for the first two!!!trentschler
Well-known member
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- Sep 10, 2002
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- Tom Rentschler
Well, whoever advised me to swap out my condensor on my 104, hit the nail right on the head. It was backfiring under a decent load of snow- not anymore though!
Has anyone had any "strange" experiences with MMO? I put it into my gas at the right ratio, and now the idel runs so freagin high, it's unbelievable???
Also, are there any pivot points on my steering column on my 104- i can hear the medal grinding down there.
thnaks,
Tom
Has anyone had any "strange" experiences with MMO? I put it into my gas at the right ratio, and now the idel runs so freagin high, it's unbelievable???
Also, are there any pivot points on my steering column on my 104- i can hear the medal grinding down there.
thnaks,
Tom
B
bblair
Guest
Kevin and Dave, thanks for the replies.
Kevin, the tractor went to the repair shop to get the back tire fixed and the repair person tightened up the screws around the transmission cover. They were afraid to take the cover off because they didn't think they could get a new seal and they didn't want to ruin it. It has been dripping a little for a while and the repair people said to add some. It is possible that the fill-plug is leaking.
Kevin, the tractor went to the repair shop to get the back tire fixed and the repair person tightened up the screws around the transmission cover. They were afraid to take the cover off because they didn't think they could get a new seal and they didn't want to ruin it. It has been dripping a little for a while and the repair people said to add some. It is possible that the fill-plug is leaking.
