Archive through January 14, 2013

[mgerecke]

Quick question on my 149. Sometimes when you are starting it cold, and you have pulled out the choke and pushed it back in while cranking it backfires. This is after you have cranked it over for about 10 seconds. Also the motor is hard to start warm after you shut it off and go to start it a few minutes later. The choke has to be pulled out even after it is hot. Doe anybody have any ideas as to what might need to be adjusted?

 

[gcoleman]

Big thank you to Ron S. for this, Mark, this oughtta help you as well. Gonna try all of the methods mentioned here, thanks!

From Ron S. "I don't see that anyone responded to your post about your backfiring Cubbie. I assume it was running properly before cold weather set in. However, your condenser could have went bad. First, make sure the condenser wire is hooked to the negative terminal on your coil (same side as the points wire). If that is good, then try a new condenser. If that don't fix it, then it sounds like your timing is possibly off even though your points are set at .020", they could be opening and firing the plug too soon. I recommend you use the static timing method that Matt Gonitzke has on his website http://mgonitzke.net16.net/ under the "How To" menu (K-Series Static Timing). The gap may not be quite .020" after you use this method but the timing will be spot on. One other thought is try a new plug along the way if the condenser isn't the problem. Sometimes the plug will fire fine in open air but under pressure they hit and miss. Also backfiring can cause your plug to fail as well and cause the symptom so it would be worth checking.

If none of these help, then check for a leaking head gasket. Look for oily dirt/carbon buildup around the head. If so, then you will have to pull the head and get a new gasket. Also, this would be a good time to remove all carbon build up and check the head for flatness. Check Charlies FAQ's link at the top of the page for help on this issue. Hope this helps."

 

[hydroharry]

Mark - your symptoms could be all the usual suspect items. Some of the experts on here may be able to hit the nail on the head, but the 1st thing I like to check with an intermittent problem is the points and timimg. Since setting the timing is actually done by adjusting the points you need to check and set the timing using either the static method best desribed by Matt G, or use a timing light if you have one. It's pretty well known that setting the points at the .020 spec will not give you correct timing. If this doesn't resolve the problem I'd check/reset the carb adjustments. It could be many other things but that's where I'd start. Let us know how you make out and come back for more info. That Kohler should start "almost before" you turn the key, if everything is set up and operating correctly.

 

[mgerecke]

Harry-I have always set the points with a feeler gauge. So this is a little different for me. I did a little reading here as to how to set it with a timing light which I have. Where do you hook the positive and negative lead on these tractors? Mine is an inductive one. And do you adjust the points while it is running? Just want to make sure I do it right.

 

[hydroharry]

Mark - I just connect the positive and negative leads to the respective battery terminals, and the inductive connector on the spark plug wire near the plug (but make sure the contact and wire don't touch any hot tin surfaces that could cause it to melt). It's probably safer to connect the negative lead to the tractor/engine ground but that's on the other side of the tractor by the S/G and I don't like snaking the wires all over any more than necessary. You can't adjust the points with the engine running, at least as far as I know. (I never have and believe it would just short out or even burn something out). You'll have to start and stop the engine each time you check the timing, and make sure you turn the key fully off each time so you don't adjust the points while they are energized. Hopefully your timing marks (usually T for TopDeadCenter, and S or SP for Spark) will be visible at least with your timing light. Although once timing is set correctly the S mark needs to be dead center to your timing site hole, you might have to initially look up or down with your light thru the timing site hole to find the current setting. I believe your timing site hole on a 14hp engine will be in the flywheel shroud below the coil. It might have a push plug in the hole if you've never set or checked the timing before. (If you can't see the hole in the shroud there then it might be on the other side of the shroud in the area of and below the S/G mount but I think that is only some 12hp engines). Now, I don't recall for certain which way to adjust the points to advance or retard the timing so my guess is increase point gap to advance and decrease point gap to retard. If you cannot see any of the timing marks you'll have to manually rotate your flywheel and look for the timing marks using a fine flashlight of some type (and no or very little background light). They will probably be covered with rust and you'll have to mark them with chalk. Good luck and let us know how you make out. (My guess is that since you've never set your timing you'll find it's quite retarded. You're final point gap will probably measure about .021 or .022 when the timing is set at dead center on the S or SP mark but I am guessing). And all this assumes you do have a good battery, good spark plug, good fuel and a good set of points. If the points are burnt a little you can file them with some emery cloth by just sliding it across the closed points, but others will disagree with me.

 

[ewells]

HydroHarry you can adjust points when the engine is running. You loosen the lock down screw and put screwdriver in the slot of the points to open or close points then when timing is where you want it tighten screw to lock and then recheck timing. I did my 301 last summer after using static method then started engine and slightly changed points setting while running to the sweet spot.

 

[kshultz]

Bill, Kraig & Daniel.
Thanks. for the specs on the Original!

 

[bjamison]

Neglected needed home repairs/improvements and worked on the 1650 instead - much to the displeasure of my Wife/Boss....

Took a look-see at a few things. Firstly, I've got 3 Kohler engines to work with on this 1650. The one that came out of it, a 14 hp transplant, a 16 hp QL engine I bought and another 14 hp engine that I thought came from a JD tractor. With those engines, I thought I'd have two IHCC configured oil pans and one JD configuration oil pan, but on further inspection, all 3 oil pans are the same - leading me to believe all 3 of these engines came from IHCC tractors. That's good news because on the 16 hp engine, a big chunk of the engine's bearing plate is broken...

The oil pan is also toast...

So I've got some parts to work with.

Next I took a look see at the carb on the 16 hp engine and could see #30 cast in the intake past the choke, but could not see any number on the 14 hp engine...

Would the 14 hp engine have #30 carb or something else? What would have been standard, how can I identify what I've got?

Next up, I noticed the 16 hp engine has what looks like could be a pulley on the flywheel or something to hold the flex joints for the drive shaft. What do you make of this...

The 16 hp engine is a 12 fin block and I don't see any balance gears in it...

I then pulled the head and the cylinder seems very smooth, but the cylinder is worn or maybe the better word is eroded away on one side.

Here is a pic of the cylinder at TDC and the valves - lots of carbon.

So I think I've got an engine to work with, but for now if the 14 hp I pulled out of the 1650 is good (I will try to pull the head this week to inspect), I'll use this 1650 as a 1450 in drag.

BTW - Harry B - here is the serial tag. I think this makes the tractor a 1650?

 

[sblunier]

Bill,

Swap the broken parts on the 16hp for parts from the 14hp block and have a good running 16.......

14's can be found with both 26 and 30 carbs

 

[hydroharry]

Ed W - thanks for clarifying that you can actually adjust the points when the engine is running. I think I'd still rather not do it on a 14 or 16hp since they tend to rock back and forth more than a 10hp or 12hp like yours, and then you got that dang adjusting screw that's a pain to get at from the side especially when you have hands my size.

Bill J - just tell the wife there are only certain times you can do home repairs/improvements and certain times you can do the Cub repairs, and right now it's the Cubs.
Wish I was more of an engineer and could really help you on the carbs. I think all you have to do is measure the opening of the #30 carb and the carb on the 14hp. If they are the same then it would be a #30. Assume both have the high speed and low speed needle adjusting screws.
That pulley (or is it a sheave) on the flywheel is a standard Kohler part for Cub Cadets (have a look at your 109 and you'll see one there as well). Later Kohler engines came with a coupler without the pulley groove.
Now, on the cylinder and piston, wish I could see both better. The engine experts on here will have to tell you what has happened. Suspect it was carbon build up and eventually the piston chipped it off the cylinder wall. I've seen it more often the other way - where the piston gets worn away on the edge. Have to hope what you have is repairable/rebuildable. Really need some better closer up pics. Does really show the importance of decarboning the head and piston on these engines.
And finally - you sur'nuff got a 1650 with that 0670 code.

 

[proessler]

Steve B., Great article in "Cub Cadet Connection", hope all PD rookies & others read it.

 

[digger]

You know!
Some days are just like Christmas.
3 boxes of 33 showed up today and the other 6 are coming tomorrow.

 

[kmcconaughey]

Charlie, nice storage bins!

 

[bjamison]

Harry B said, "just tell the wife...."

I'd be afraid to go there for fear of...

...etc.

My bad on the cylinder/piston gap. The wear is on the piston - not the cylinder. Is it possible the only damage is to the piston? I think the cylinder looks good, but no measurements on it.

 

[dfrisk]

CHARLIE - More of DAN H's handiwork?

 

[digger]

Denny,
Nope, these are the real old deal from a closed dealer.

 

[dfrisk]

CHARLIE - I was thinking from Dan's "Day Job". But maybe he hasn't been there that long. I'd guess those are at least 28-29 yrs old or more.

I bought some shorter bins than those to organize my hardware over 30 yrs ago. Even made metal dividers for some of them to separate nuts, lock washers & flat washers and longer and shorter bolts in the same bin.

You can NEVER have too many storage bins! 297 of them should be a good start for your needs!

 

[hydroharry]

Charlie - I never heard of 33 coming in a box. I think you're short 3 in each, should be qty36. After the other 6 boxes arrive tomorrow better send a note back.

Bill J - you gotta just tell the wife, that you've given in on alot of things for her but you just ain't giving in on your CUBS!!!

Yes it's possible the only damage is to the piston and rings. Can't see the cylinder but you probably have a carbon rig buildup. Might get away with just honing, but the measurements are key, and whether you have any scoring on the cylinder as well.

 

[digger]

Harry B.
And you've seen IH bins in the box that were sent to dealers back in the day???

 

[hydroharry]

Charlie - Yup! And some of the bins had those same numbered markings on them like the ones you got - funny thing is the "Magic Marker" to put those marks on, hadn't been invented yet.

Mark G - are you out in your Cub garage checking and adjusting your timing?