Archive through January 01, 2005

[mhomrighausen]

Belated Seasons Greetings to All:

Some nice and interesting reading and discussion on loaders and why would a hydro necessarily need a creeper going on lately. Reminds me of the many years ago when I was a kid. I asked my dad and literally every mechanic and dealer around about the benefit of putting a loader on a little garden tractor. The reason was simple: since we had just gotten our off topic Massey 10, I thought we should have every dang attachment we could for it. The mechanics basically said the same as my dad. Only those really needing them should have them. The mechanics complained of sprung frames and broken axles amongst other things and upset customers because the loaders should be able to lift "mountains". The dealers told me they were good in places a regular loader/tractor wouldn't fit. To that my parents would just say that is what a pitchfork was made for. I also recall that there weren't any small (i.e. 36" wide)skidloaders in that day. That was the reason garden tractors had loaders in the first place. Nowadays,if I were to feel the urge to do a lot of moving dirt, gravel, etc. or digging, I would be more inclined to find a good used little skidloader with rollcage. Might not be a Cub with loader only to me would be more pratical.

On putting a creeper on a hydro. There must be something to that other than cold weather starting. Don't a couple of the other brands offer two speed hydros on their garden tractors? I'll have to ask those fellas.

Now I better run for cover.

 

[tturner]

My appolagies

 

[dkamp]

You're on-the-spot there, Marlin- a small used skidloader would be fine, or even better'n a few things (other than the sinking-in issue)... there's only one preference here that'd overrule it:

Wife said no. That's where it ended.

But that's not where it started.
I asked for a crane. Nothing fancy, just something that I could hook-and-hold around 1000lbs at 40' height, at 50 degree boom angle. She said no- too big, no place to park it.

So I asked for a backhoe. Again- nothing fancy... a good used Extend-A-Hoe, mebbie a big Ditch-Witch. Again, no- too big.

So then I asked for a skidloader. Can't pick up anything tall, and can't dig deep, but I could at least shuffle stuff around here without havin' to do it by hand. Even had a line on a used Bobcat, old air-cool'd, friction-drive machine for $800... the answer, again <sigh> was no.

A few days later, Keith E called, said he had a bunch'a IHCC WF parts that were headed to the scrapyard, asked if I wanted to take a look, so I did. That pile, and a few other pieces... turned into Loader-Mutt. IN reality, it would've been less expensive, faster, and higher-capacity to get the Bobcat... but SHE said no.

But that's okay- I like Loader-Mutt... it has plenty of agility, doesn't sink-in, has a decent amount of lift (what I can't lift, I shouldn't be lifting anyway). And the one last bonus is safety. You'd think that a skid-steer with full cage would be the epitome of safety, but down here, they're not.

Drive a skid-steer too close to the riverbank, and go in, you have a very slim chance of survival, 'cause you can't get out.

So, If Loader-Mutt gets away from me, I'll just let her go, step off, and let her swim... then hook on, drag her out, dump the water, change fluids, clear the cylinder, and fire it back up.

And I really like Kelley Birkey's arrangement. Obviously it's a hydro arrangement, and I've been workin' my noodle on the drive arrangement, but not very hard. Perhaps I'll do this at some future time, but with that kind of tractive effort, I'll go for a bigger powerplant, and a bigger pair of loader-arms, for more capacity (that I shouln't use).

Marlin- if a hydrostat needs a two-speed final, it's probably because the hydrostat unit doesn't have the pump/motor speed range that it should for the application... can't go fast-enough to give the 'road speed', or doesn't have the pressure capability to generate drawbar pull.

(Message edited by dkamp on January 01, 2005)

 

[digger]

Dave K2,
You shoulda said somethin, I woulda sold my old CASE 580 SUPER L Extenda Hoe, It doesn't get much work time anymore anyway!

 

[dkamp]

Yeah, and I'd be fine with that, too... but she still would'a said no.

Re. cold starts- my garage is unheated, so everything starts hard. Think I need to go through the 109's S/G to breathe a bit more zing int'a the start-function... I know it starts much quicker with the driveshaft uncoupled, but it's still slow-to-go. Engine's still tight from the rebuild, it'll probably loosen up after a few more Plow-Days. :-}

 

[tcbusch]

To add to the "So why do you have a loader on your cub" topic.

I live on a one acre lot, so I play with small garden tractors. I got a welder for Christmas last year. I needed something to build. My dad sent me a link to the plans. I knew I wanted a loader to do nothing with. A few weeks later......

So why a one arm loader you ask? At the time of the build I only had 2 Cubs. A 73 and a 147. The 73 cant even mow anymore the engine is in rough shape. I still needed to use all of the attachments on the 147. With the bucket off the loader only adds about 100 lbs or less so I wont dig ruts in the lawn when I mow.

And finally did I mention I though it would be cool?

(Message edited by tcbusch on January 01, 2005)

 

[bwatson]

Marlin, I can think of a couple others that have a 2 speed rear. Case (step-brother?) now called Ingersoll and Allis-Chalmers 600 & 700 series. Dave is right on about the power issue. I have a 446 and a 220 Case. They won't climb much of a hill and keep the mower running in high range. Case uses a gear pump directly mounted to the engine and a hydraulic motor in the trans axle. At 10 gpm open center they have more hydraulic capacity than some farm tractors in the 60's. The problem is it takes power to keep all that oil circulating. I love the ground clearance of the 446 (it has 8.00-16's in back) and the smooth power from the 2 cyl Onan. The CC hydrostat is much more efficient. If I'm thinking correctly the hydrostat pumps under pressure only the fluid it needs to drive however fast the s/r lever demands. The Case system is probably more like a hydrogear system. The hydrogear has a fixed displacement pump and uses a valve that diverts flow from bypass to motor. Case even offers a rear hydraulic outlet system that can drive a tiller, bush hog, and a logsplitter. I think having a low range might help with pushing a snow thrower or blade, but I doubt any of the 2 speed Case's will be out pulling a Cub in a tractor pull.

 

[zfriedman]

Of course I don't have a pin-punch, that would mean I have basic supplies in my garage. I hope its cheap and available at most 'Rice-It' auto stores.

I have Automatic Transmission Fluid on hand, will that work? If I'm gonna destroy something by using it, do me a favor and let me know. I don't see why it wouldn't, but then again I don't really know what ATF is.

As for loaders, I guess I have to say something about them...uh...they seem usefull? Everything I need to move around could be put in a dump cart anyway.

 

[mhomrighausen]

Dave K. Yes, I agree with the wife saying "NO." part. My now ex said No to a skidloader at first too. That was until she saw how handy it was. Our youngest son now has it.The boys wouldn't let her sell the skidloader or the 1810. Oldest boy had to buy the 1810 from her and youngest had to buy the skidloader from her. She got them in the divorce. I am happy that my Cub Cadets are an accepted part of the family. I still have to clear with the "bookkeeper" though any major purhases. Oh, the privileges of being single ... I sometimes miss them. :+)

 

[mhomrighausen]

Don't get me wrong guys. If I had a chance to own a Cub/loader combo the answer would be YES in a heartbeat. I have always thought they looked neat. Our local Green dealer has a new JD/loader garden tractor sitting on their lot. If it isn't too icy out tomorrow I may go check it out closer. Just to get out of the house.

Brian W. Dang ... now you have me thinking. I know of a Case 220 with deck and snowblower sitting in a small engine repair parts yard. The fella said all it needed was the tranny leak fixed. He didn't want to mess with it. The engine is supposed to be good. If I could get it cheap enough then we could see just how it would do in a Cub vs Case pull. Nope come to think of it I have to hold off. A friend is checking out a Cub Cadet someone painted green for me. Not that I need another project.

 

[farmall gray]

The best articulated drive system I have seen IMHO
was the 100 Kraig posted recently. I had saved some detail pics of it that were posted a while back. It has a hydro rearend in the front settting backwards. I assume the driveshaft is hooked to the rear of the hydro pump. In the rear, it has a geardrive rearend facing normal direction. He took a driveshaft from an extension of the pinion shaft on the hydro to the pinion shaft on the geardrive. He probably left all the
3 spd gears out since they are not needed. This setup is pretty simple and you don't have to worry about syncronizing 2 hydros. The gear drive transaxle is basically just used as a differential
housing. Someone who has seen it in person can probably add more details. This is just what I figured out from pics.

 

[farmall gray]

Here is one of the pics I have of the articulated 100

 

[farmall gray]

I'm not sure what happened. Try again.

Maybe I'm all wet. That front axle has a geardrive shifter on it. But it also has a filter in the same place a hydro would. That is why I
assumed it was a hydro. Anyone know the whole story? I suppose it could work with a hydro but you would have to reroute the suction tube among other things.

(Message edited by tmarkle on January 01, 2005)

(Message edited by tmarkle on January 01, 2005)

 

[tmanley]

Hope I didn't overlook an answer, and don't want to sound like a broken record, but will Original fenders be the right ones for my 72, or did they change?

 

[digger]

Torin,
Yea you did over look it, cause I answered ya, grin
The fenders are the basiclly the same, the mounting brackets are different.

(Message edited by cproctor on January 01, 2005)

 

[digger]

Original setup,

100 setup,

 

[thoffman]

Since the loader thing is the big topic, here's my .02. Cub Cadets are on hell of a machine, but they are still callED "Lawn and Graden tractors" and even "SUPER Garden Tractors". YES there are/were some real nice aftermarket makers out there, but you have to consider the primary use of these great machines. They ain't loaders, dozers, backhoes, scrapers, cranes, forklifts, etc., etc., etc.. If you want one of the above call CATERPILLAR!

<font size="-2">Off the soapbox now.</font>

 

[jvangor]

are the engines on the cub cadet 86's really painted black? the engine is all i have to paint, and this one is black, i have had quiet a few people tell me it was painted black.}

 

[sblunier]

Creeper on a hydro??????

Not to offend, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.......a hydro must be run a full engine rpm's to do it's best work.......why the $%^& would you want to knock 3600 rpm down to 900 rpm on the front side of a hydro????????

Cold weather starting????????....that's why they made the disconnect clutch, for that matter, put in a regular gear drive clutch to DECLUTCH the hydro for starts....it is that big of a problem????? Mine start fine and they are kept in an unheated shed.

Creepers are to make gear drives work as well as hydros already work on things like tillers and snow throwers....period.

...now, a 2 speed rear axle, that's a different story......plenty of uses for that, but it's also not a creeper, and certainly not a cold starting aid.


BTW, rear PTO on a hydro??????......already been done...982

Raise the fender deck about 1-1/2", put a stub shaft out the back into a bearing block with an electric clutch, add belt and sheaves to knock down the speed and drop the output shaft below the fenders.......you can do it with stock parts....

 

[sblunier]

86 engine:

Yellow

The replacement engines were black so you see many Cubs with black engines in them, but from the factory an 86 had a yellow mill.