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Archive through February 24, 2004

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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wcompton

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Wyatt Compton
Dave-
BTW-
The bearing you used is a regular wheel bearing for use with 3/4" spindles. The tractor I'm building has one, if you find the steel collar that's used at the top of the steering tube on a 70/100 it makes one heck of a nice retainer/dust shield.
 
Dave-
Thanks for the info. If I ever have the guts to tear apart another aluminum bodied creeper, I'll give that a try.
 
Hi Wyatt! Thanks for the tip- What's that steel collar look like?
 
Dave-
Unless Kraig has a picture of one, I'll snap one tonight when I get home. It's basically just a steel cap with a hole for the steering shaft, it's an interference fit with the steering tube. It's made with a concave on the top, but I just pressed it out flat. It's certainly a lot nicer than the plastic bushing later used that likes to ride up & out of the steering tube. Seems like most of the used IH Cub Cadets I see have a token hose clamp on the shaft keeping that bushing down in the tube.

With your lathe it might just be easier to use a sealed bearing and run a snap ring groove around the steering shaft.
 
The higher hp wideframes had two springs in the PTO clutch assy. My 149 also has two springs.
 
Art, Wyatt,

The difference in the two clutch spring set-ups is the use of a brake or not. If you use the double flat springs on a button style clutch the steel button will "walk" out away from the fiber/brass throw-out button and eventually pitch a lever out....BTDT!!!!!!

One spring w/bent ends for button PTO's.......2 springs with flat ends for brake style PTO's.

The 6 CI "pins" in the casting show up on some of the late model button PTO's as well as the brake style.

The xx8/9 series has just about every PTO combination out there since they were the "change-over" models.
 
Wyatt C: Those triangular springs are what causes the tension on the clutch plate/disc & makes your attachment operate. The early versions used a bent end single spring (the xx90 kit is still available) and later they switched to the flat end springs. At some point I guess some IH engineer figured out that to maintain the "spring" & keep the clutch engaging properly that using two of those bent end springs would do the trick. The flat end rebuild kit (xx89) comes with two of 'em. If you rebuild enough of 'em, especially those with the bent ends, you will realize that most of the clutches with single springs are permanently depressed in the middle which serves to give you a slipping clutch.
When I figured this out, I switched exclusively to the double flat end rebuild kits (fits & works on 'em all) and haven't had a slipping clutch problem since.
Myron B
 
Wyatt, get yer camera ready, I don't think I have a photo of that. :eek:)

Myron, thanks for the PTO rebuild kits info.

Dave K2., interesting info on the bearing removal from an aluminum housing, thanks. Keep the progress photos coming!!!!!
 
Thanks Steve and Myron

Steve-
I guess that was the part I learned about yesterday as I thought there were just two versions (brake vs. non-brake) when actually there's three (button with bent-spring, button with pins in the casting and 1 flat-spring, brake PTO with pins in the casting AND double springs.)

The one on the right in my previous photo appears to be a early style PTO that's been rebuilt with the wrong style spring. Maybe that's why the spring has a large crack in it radiating from the hole in the center out to the edge..

Thanks guys!
 
I repeat: If you use the flat springs (one or 2 of them, it doesn't matter) on a button style clutch you will eventually pitch one of the lever arms out of the groove in the button.....BTDT and so have others on here.

The bent tabs on the single spring keep the steel button centered in the PTO, preventing it from "walking" on the throw-out button.

The little pins in the later castings do not provide tight enough "centering" effects to keep the buttons from walking.

The last button style xx8/9 clutch I tore down had the CI casting pins, but it had a single spring with bent ends. I rebuilt it with the double flat kit (because I believe it to be a better set-up) and it immediately started to pitch levers out when disengaged. Installing the single bent end spring fixed it right up.

The PTO brake shoe has 3 tabs on it that keep the PTO centered when disengaged...this is why the brake style can get by with the flat springs.
 
Steve-
I noticed that this PTO not only has the pins in the casting, but also has little dimples where the spring tips hit the casting. Did yours have those dimples? <font size="-2">easy guys..</font>

Either way, it doesn't matter as I'm rebuilding the early style PTO and have an early style kit on the way, so it sounds like I'm OK, but thanks for the info!
 
Art,
Hard to check, it's on the 169 now......I know it had the 6 pins.

169 might get the brake style clutch soon......
 
Dave K,
Had to go back and re-read your post... thought you said to soak 'em "in cider"!
 
I changed all of my 1X9 PTO's to the brake style clutch. Best thing I ever did for safety's sake. I know people say they can adjust the brakeless one's so they stop, but sooner or later they start to slip when they start to wear.
 
Richard C. -

I agree. However, no matter what style brake, it's hard to stop a 59M
biggrin.gif
 
All: Since I always replace the steel thrust button NO walking occurs on my units (and I've got 2 or 3). Currently supplied thrust buttons are made to stay centered on the double springs. Rebuilding with an old/used thrust button makes no sense to me so I always replace them.
Myron B
 
Myron,

Not trying to be arguementative, but my PTO had a new button, new levers, and a new 149 double spring kit all installed on a 6 pin casting and adjusted to spec (I've rebuilt enough of them that it's not a matter of mis-adjustment)........and it spit out levers like no tomorrow. Single bent spring fixed it.

I think John L. and others have had this problem too.....
 
Am I the only one that's never had problems with PTO's? I've never touched one other than tearing apart an engine. Every one I've had works perfect.
 
I wonder if there were some PTO castings with the pins, but without these "dimples"?...
16118.jpg

Kinda seems like that would allow the springs to float around.
 
Wyatt,

When you buy'em broke, you gotta fix'em!!!!

I have had one PTO spring break after 2 years.....I attributed it to a bad spring.

And, the 169 PTO spit it's levers, but I used the wrong rebuild kit, so that was my fault.
 
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