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jchamberlin

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Jeremiah Chamberlin
Don T: I hope you read this before you get back to wrenching. You should be able to verify Top Dead Center (TDC) for the piston in the cylinder versus the timing mark on the cam very simply in a Kohler (but it will work for any engine, if you're careful).

1. Remove the spark plug
2. Insert pencil or some other non-ferrous item that is stiff enough to indicate the position of the piston in the cylinder, but supple enough not to break and/or damage the top of the cylinder (tricky with engines in V-configurations and/or angled spark plugs, but easy in a Kohler)
3. Turn crank by hand until the piston has achieved it's apex (highest point).

4. If in doubt about the highest point, you can fine-tune the procedure by turning carefully until the piston reaches its highest point, make a mark; continue turning until the piston starts to move down again, and make another mark. Top-Dead-Center will be midway between the marks.

Before you start, you may want to get the "S" or "T" in view through the window, because it is possible to locate TDC between the Exhaust stroke (up) and the Intake stroke (down); when what you want is to locate TDC between the Compression stroke (up) and the Power stroke (down).

I'm not an engine expert like Harry describes, but I remember going through the process when I degreed a cam. And yes, if you're hearing backfire through the carburetor, then the timing is too far advanced. I'm not versed enough in Kohler's to know if that means the spark gap is too large or too small, but judging from what you've been through (and trust me, I feel for you), it would probably be a good idea to re-establish a baseline. A simple "pencil test" should tell you if turning wrenches is required or if you need to look elsewhere (again).
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Edit 1: Get the "S" mark in view before you begin, that should put you at a point BTDC (Before Top Dead Center).

Edit 2: I forgot to state the purpose of the test: If you locate TDC with the pencil test, the "T" should be at or near the viewing window. If you're close to the "T" when you have independently located TDC, then you don't need to open it up; if "T" is not in view at TDC (or further from it than you think is right), then you need to open it up to confirm cam alignment. (Didn't you do this once before on this motor, or was it someone else?)
 

dtanner

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Donald Tanner
Jeremiah Chamberlin
I can`t use your idea of the pencil ,because I have the head with the spark plug over the exhaust valve and all I can see is the Valve when the plug is removed. I read Matt g static timming method and it makes no sense to me ; since he never says when or what crank position to set the points at for .020
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top dead center would make the points never close, so I just tried to get the points to open on the "S" mark since that should be .20 before TDC as the manual states.On Matt G page he states the points should break causing a spark at the S mark and the engine would be timmed. I will take this engine out but I`am thinking that It is timmed corect by the crank to Cam .I did ask a few months ago and made sure I had it aligned correctly.
 

kide

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Gerry Ide
Don:
The points should JUST open at the"S" (spark) mark. Use a pieces of wire and angle it into the plug hole and you can still use it to feel TDC. Note that using the timing marks is one way of setting timing (the most accurate)and gapping the points at .020 is another way, but you don't mix the two methods i.e. you don't set the points at .020 at the "S" mark or you'll actually have them opening wayyyyy too early and get backfire...
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digger

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Digger
Ya know!
I gotta be the luckiest SOB on the planet when it comes to setting points on Cubs.
I take the plug out, roll it over until I have pressure on it, set the points at 18, or what ever an old matchbook cover is, close everything up and go play.
I've never looked in that little hole to find any freakin S or T or nothin! LOL
 

kostendorf

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Keith Ostendorf
I pulled the engine today and pretty happy with what I'm seeing. No balance gears... Did find out one oil pan hole for the ISO frame is stripped, but I can helicoil that. What do the experts see?

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I do see a hole in the shroud from the ISO bolt.

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dschwandt

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Mar 31, 2012
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David Schwandt
I see a pretty clean engine compartment!
A lot cleaner than mine have been 1st thing after the mill has been removed!.

Should be a pretty easy rehab judging by that.
I've just finished with my 1200. All it needed was the head resurfaced, new gasket, general clean-up, carb kit, pan gasket and some paint.
She's sittin' in the drive right now purring away so I can run it back in the shop and retorque the head in the morning.

Dave S.
 

dtanner

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Donald Tanner
The points are set at .020 at TDC. it runs ,idles but stumbles when shoved to WOT . I don`t seem to be getting much response form turning the high idle jet so I think I will replace the carb and try again.It is blowing black smoke and stumbling, Or try .018 timing ? open to suggestions
 

mfrade

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Mike Frade
Charlie, I'm with you! I just turn the crank over and watch the points. when they open I verify they are around 18 to 20 thousandths and call it good! I haven't even opened that points cover in probably 5 or 6 years! I bought the pushrod for the points, new points and they are sitting in the boxes.. Maybe someday! Heck, My tractor still has the original Champion sparkplug in it!!!
 

hydroharry

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Jul 22, 2007
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Harry Bursell
Don T - the maximum your points should open is .020 (well maybe .021 or .022). BUT just forget all the compression stroke, and BTDC and TDC stuff for now. Just look at your points, rotate the drive shaft and watch the points open, and when they get to the widest opening use your feeler gauge. If it's between .018 to .020 the points are set fine and you have a different problem. (the way you describe it currently I'm thinking your points are really opening to about .040 at the widest point and that's your problem).

Charlie - fyi, match book covers are .020 if Made in the U.S.A and .018 if Made in China. The USA version is good for multiple uses, and the Chinese version is one time throw away.
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dtanner

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Donald Tanner
Ok an update. remove the filter and had the same issue.Puffing out black some and would not rev up with out a stumble. So I grabbed another Carb and installed that. It will rev out now but some black smoke. So I think I have a Carb issue .When turning the high idle screw out I get more fuel correct ??? I will have to take this carb apart and see what is wrong and reinstall. I know to high a float setting will cause the engine to flood .I never had this much trouble with any Cub I ever worked on. My 129 was no problem and the 149 was the same ; I rebuild both and replaced everything and turned the key and they ran and worked. GGGRRRRR
 

bjames

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Nov 29, 2004
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Bill James
Remind me not to buy one of those fancy carb cleaning machines.
 

lpalma

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new jersey
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Lewis Palma
Don T.
I would set up a remote fuel tank without a filter.Is the float set right or have some liquid in it?

Here is a 100 with a AQS motor in it.Worked out pretty well.No frame to cut or wiring to change ...just a bunch of parts to change over...

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wshytle

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Wayne Shytle
Don-

You may still be simply having carb problems. I told you what to do...take the darn thing out and blow it out very well. You might even incorporate some carb cleaner. Taking just the high speed needle out probably isn't enough.

Matts way of static timing tells you what that individual engine requires for proper timing. If you do it right it will be timed as good as you can get it. The .020 is only a starting point.

Also, when the "T" is in the window the engine is at TDC...it has nothing to do with the cam. If it's not then the keyway probably has something to do with it.
 

dtanner

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Donald Tanner
Lewis Do-Da Palma

Do Da, Wayne

I took the carb apart and found more dirt. Then it comes to me I used my remote tank with out a gas filter. That is the way this mess got in the bowl.

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I can`t win .
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bjames

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Bill James
Don, that's no mess. It ain't nothin but a thing. If I pulled all of my float bowls and took a pic you would think I was crazy for running them.
 

kostendorf

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Keith Ostendorf
If you notice my engine pics the balance gear shafts are not there. Does this prove IH quit using them in Q/L engines?
 
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