Don Tanner After you make sure your condenser is grounded good you can remove the plug, lay it on top of the engine with plug wire connected.With points open turn key on and short asross points with screwdriver and the plug will fire. If you have weak spark there, remove wire from plug, put plug wire about 1/8 inch from ground and do it again and see if spark is hotter. This would eliminate the plug and plug wire.Your problem sounds like the points aren't grounding good when closed. Just my 02c
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Archive through February 05, 2013
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Don T.
I may have miss read the postings. If your question was, will having the crank and cam miss timed effect the quality of the spark. Then no it will not.
Yes, if not timed right the spark would be there at the wrong time, but the spark would not have lower volt/amp.
I have never used a point saver so I'm no help on that.
I may have miss read the postings. If your question was, will having the crank and cam miss timed effect the quality of the spark. Then no it will not.
Yes, if not timed right the spark would be there at the wrong time, but the spark would not have lower volt/amp.
I have never used a point saver so I'm no help on that.
Sooo,
We had Off Topic Monday and now we're conducting business back and forth via the main forum board????
We had Off Topic Monday and now we're conducting business back and forth via the main forum board????
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- Binder 1650
Quick question: FAQ #23 shows a set of yellow QL engine cradle brackets with a notch in the front of them. Later they show a black cradle (I assume was by CCC) with factory cross bars welded onto them.
The rails that were in my 1650 are like the black rails shown in the picture - less the factory welded cross pieces.
My question is - did IH change the rail design somewhere in production of the QL tractors to a non-notched rail?
Also, the snubber shown on the pic of the yellow rail in the FAQ is a cylinder shape - square shoulders. The snubbers that came off mine are rounded like an upside down U shape. Was this a running change that happened during production at the time of the rail change from notch to no-notch?
Also - is the notch in the rail there to allow the engine cradle assy to be set into the engine bay easier? There is a tab that folds over on each side of the front frame and just looking at pictures, I'm wondering if the purpose of the notches was to clear those tabs when installing an engine/cradle assy.
There is much going on with this 1650 and the potential money pit $$$'s could pile up to the point that it is a keeper....
The rails that were in my 1650 are like the black rails shown in the picture - less the factory welded cross pieces.
My question is - did IH change the rail design somewhere in production of the QL tractors to a non-notched rail?
Also, the snubber shown on the pic of the yellow rail in the FAQ is a cylinder shape - square shoulders. The snubbers that came off mine are rounded like an upside down U shape. Was this a running change that happened during production at the time of the rail change from notch to no-notch?
Also - is the notch in the rail there to allow the engine cradle assy to be set into the engine bay easier? There is a tab that folds over on each side of the front frame and just looking at pictures, I'm wondering if the purpose of the notches was to clear those tabs when installing an engine/cradle assy.
There is much going on with this 1650 and the potential money pit $$$'s could pile up to the point that it is a keeper....
hydroharry
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Don T - I see some messages for you that confuse the situation. If your 125 is not starting and you have verified you have a good ground on the Point Saver - then I suggest you remove the Point Saver and return to an original points, condensor, coil, spark plug set up, then reset the timing and see if it runs again. Assuming it runs and timing is correct, then you should be able to re-install the Point Saver (following David Kirk's specific instructions) and the timing will still be set correct, and the 125 should start and run.
Bill J - I checked FAQ #23 and it's titled "Could you tell me some things I can learn from a dog". I hadn't read that one for quite some time. I believe Ranger Buck was the author - it's from back in the ole days of the Forum BGC.
Now, I think you were really referencing Charlie's FAQ #23 (give credit where credit is due) - yes, IH made a couple different versions of the ISO-rails. Why, I don't know. As far as I know the black ones shown in the FAQ pic may be "CCC" not IH, and I think they were designed for the 1282 (12hp K Kohler), and maybe some later units that might have used a K series single cylinder but not certain. You must have noticed the rear cross brace has to be cut off/out of the black version.
With regard to the knotch - I believe you're talking about the little square cut-out off the top corner. Who knows why, but it does appear having it there would allow you to possible drop the engine into place with the ISO bars already installed to the engine - if you have a chain hoist you are using to drop the engine into place so you could still get the ISO-mounts installed correctly.
Did you happen to notice the "oblong" holes toward the rear of the black ISO-bars? Some of the original ISO-bars had the oblong holes - which is for the rear bolt to mount the engine to the ISO-bars. The engine is "just a tad" easier to install with this oblong hole, but the front holes still require perfect alignment.
Now - as far as the snubbers, the early version were teh U style as you noted, which I believe is more proper for the way the ISO-bar aligns to the frame where the snugger rubs. The square shoulder snubber is the current replacement, and just wears on the edge - I don't know how you measure the "gap" required by the Service Manual - when it's just that little edge tip. I suspect no one actually measures and shims their snubbers any more - even tho the idea was to not allow the PTO belt tension to pull the engine to far down thereby smashing/squishing the ISO-mounts.
I would have thought by now you had determined that 1650 must be a keeper. It does no good to keep track of how much money you put into it. If that begins to bother you it's best to just grab your 109, and get some seat time and Kohler K fumes to relieve your tension - and then get back to determining other ways you can spend more money on your 1650.
Charlie - if "Off Topic Monday" now a fully sanctioned day of the week? (I didn't really notice anything I could say was off topic but may have missed something). Still hoping Kraig could assist in getting some pics downsized and posted.
Bill J - I checked FAQ #23 and it's titled "Could you tell me some things I can learn from a dog". I hadn't read that one for quite some time. I believe Ranger Buck was the author - it's from back in the ole days of the Forum BGC.
Now, I think you were really referencing Charlie's FAQ #23 (give credit where credit is due) - yes, IH made a couple different versions of the ISO-rails. Why, I don't know. As far as I know the black ones shown in the FAQ pic may be "CCC" not IH, and I think they were designed for the 1282 (12hp K Kohler), and maybe some later units that might have used a K series single cylinder but not certain. You must have noticed the rear cross brace has to be cut off/out of the black version.
With regard to the knotch - I believe you're talking about the little square cut-out off the top corner. Who knows why, but it does appear having it there would allow you to possible drop the engine into place with the ISO bars already installed to the engine - if you have a chain hoist you are using to drop the engine into place so you could still get the ISO-mounts installed correctly.
Did you happen to notice the "oblong" holes toward the rear of the black ISO-bars? Some of the original ISO-bars had the oblong holes - which is for the rear bolt to mount the engine to the ISO-bars. The engine is "just a tad" easier to install with this oblong hole, but the front holes still require perfect alignment.
Now - as far as the snubbers, the early version were teh U style as you noted, which I believe is more proper for the way the ISO-bar aligns to the frame where the snugger rubs. The square shoulder snubber is the current replacement, and just wears on the edge - I don't know how you measure the "gap" required by the Service Manual - when it's just that little edge tip. I suspect no one actually measures and shims their snubbers any more - even tho the idea was to not allow the PTO belt tension to pull the engine to far down thereby smashing/squishing the ISO-mounts.
I would have thought by now you had determined that 1650 must be a keeper. It does no good to keep track of how much money you put into it. If that begins to bother you it's best to just grab your 109, and get some seat time and Kohler K fumes to relieve your tension - and then get back to determining other ways you can spend more money on your 1650.
Charlie - if "Off Topic Monday" now a fully sanctioned day of the week? (I didn't really notice anything I could say was off topic but may have missed something). Still hoping Kraig could assist in getting some pics downsized and posted.
Question regarding correct lift bar for 147. I've seen both straight and crooked bars that run from the cast piece to the rock shaft and wondering which one I need. My takes a straight one but not sure on the 147 with electric lift. Thanks
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- Binder 1650
Harry B - you are correct, I was referencing Charlie's FAQ #23
Yes - I am talking about the little square cut-out off the top corner on the front of the rails
I did notice the "oblong" holes toward the rear of the black ISO-bars.This is how mine are made - but no notch at the front.
I need to install the snubbers I ordered from Charlie to see how they fit-up. The snubbers that came off of the tractor are the U shaped ones, but they are smashed pretty good.
I had thought about ridding myself of the 1650, but in the end, my boys wanted to keep it, so I surrendered. My only hope in justifying the $$$'s going into this tractor is that my boys are helping refurb it and will run it too. That alone should keep the Wife/Boss from tearing my head off...
Of course, then again, the 1650, even with PO's 14 hp engine, is STILL a very modern tractor what with those fancy iso mounts, gated fwd/reverse lever, side shields and electronical PTO...
Yes - I am talking about the little square cut-out off the top corner on the front of the rails
I did notice the "oblong" holes toward the rear of the black ISO-bars.This is how mine are made - but no notch at the front.
I need to install the snubbers I ordered from Charlie to see how they fit-up. The snubbers that came off of the tractor are the U shaped ones, but they are smashed pretty good.
I had thought about ridding myself of the 1650, but in the end, my boys wanted to keep it, so I surrendered. My only hope in justifying the $$$'s going into this tractor is that my boys are helping refurb it and will run it too. That alone should keep the Wife/Boss from tearing my head off...
Of course, then again, the 1650, even with PO's 14 hp engine, is STILL a very modern tractor what with those fancy iso mounts, gated fwd/reverse lever, side shields and electronical PTO...
hydroharry
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Bill J - I remember awhile back you were talking about re-installing the engine and having difficulty aligning the bolts holes in the ISO-bars with the bolt holes in the pan AND it sounded like you wanted to open the holes up a little. I would "not" recommend that. You already have the elongated holes for the rear pan bolts. I would be concerned you could end up allowing the engine to mis-align with the driveshaft routing. I know the drive shaft has rag joints, maybe even double at both ends, and a ball alignment, but if you put a slight twist on that engine you may exceed the alignment limits, or cause premature wear of the alignment parts. It just takes a little more effort to get the holes lined up "perfect" so you can get the bolts in. Make sure your 2 sons are both around especially when you install the front bolts. I feel certain you'll have some kind words for them since they encouraged you to keep the 1650 (not I did not say what "kind" of words, just kind words).
Check out IrfanView for reducing picture file size. It's a free download off the internet and is a photo edit program. Reduce the pixels all the way down to 600/400 or even 300/240. I changed my jpeg format to gif format also. If you Resize the pictures outside dimensions smaller--the lower pixel count will still produce a decent photo for upload IrfanView will tell you what the FILE Size is--if it's less than 100 kb's then you should be good to go.
Best regards
Lance
Best regards
Lance
kide
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- Gerry Ide
Larry Carter...
There are dwell meters for single cylinder engines, (I've still got my Heathkit small engine meter) but dwell, while it may be affected when setting timing, where timing is set by point gap (versus rotating the point plate), is not a way of correctly setting timing. Ignition timing is a fixed relationship between piston position in the cylinder (on the compression stroke) and when the points open to create a spark. Also note that dwell angle is not typically an issue anyways in a single cylinder engine where there is only one cam lobe for the points (and 360 degrees to open and close that set of points).
In the days of point ignition on cars, etc., Dwell was set by adjusting point opening with the engine running, and then timing was set by rotating the distributor, while watching the timing mark, typically on the crank damper- hidden behind power steering pumps, AC compressors and under a layer of muck....
There are dwell meters for single cylinder engines, (I've still got my Heathkit small engine meter) but dwell, while it may be affected when setting timing, where timing is set by point gap (versus rotating the point plate), is not a way of correctly setting timing. Ignition timing is a fixed relationship between piston position in the cylinder (on the compression stroke) and when the points open to create a spark. Also note that dwell angle is not typically an issue anyways in a single cylinder engine where there is only one cam lobe for the points (and 360 degrees to open and close that set of points).
In the days of point ignition on cars, etc., Dwell was set by adjusting point opening with the engine running, and then timing was set by rotating the distributor, while watching the timing mark, typically on the crank damper- hidden behind power steering pumps, AC compressors and under a layer of muck....
Hey there - pulled the hydro pump off my 147 and have one problem and one question. Problem - plungers are stuck in check valves. Question - expansion plug in rear end had a black rubbery covering over it. Peeled it off and wondering if maybe was leaking with po? Anyway, should I just replace the plug (easy?) and any suggestions on check valves (would rather not replace them if possible). Thanks!
hydroharry
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Jeff B - not surprising that bearing failed. I don't see a drop/drip/hide nor hair of grease on that wheel in the first pic - it's all rusty where the bearing would sit. And the wheel in the top pic is nearly as bad. That whole inside of the hub should be lined with grease (on at least an annual basis). Lets maintain those units out there guys.
Terry D - if the plungers are just in the "down" position I wouldn't worry about them. Once you have the pump back in place and start the engine they should pop up. If the plungers are actually "stuck" in the down position, well then you have a problem. There might be an FAQ on rebuilding or replacing.
I don't know about the breather on the rear differential housing. It should only leak if the tractor is upside down. Never heard of anyone replacing that breather.
Terry D - if the plungers are just in the "down" position I wouldn't worry about them. Once you have the pump back in place and start the engine they should pop up. If the plungers are actually "stuck" in the down position, well then you have a problem. There might be an FAQ on rebuilding or replacing.
I don't know about the breather on the rear differential housing. It should only leak if the tractor is upside down. Never heard of anyone replacing that breather.
Terry-
I've taken several relief valves out that were stuck and worked them back to life. I use a little carb cleaner with a small screwdriver to push the plunger out. You'll see the holes once it's removed and it's easy to figure out how to push it out. You'll probably see a lot of rusty liquid come out as you work it back and forth. Keep wiping it clean and using fresh cleaner and it will eventually pop out on its own if it still has life. I wouldn't soak them in anything because of the O-rings other than a little carb cleaner in the holes in the shaft once its out. Cover the hole in the pump with a clean rag while you have it out too.
I've taken several relief valves out that were stuck and worked them back to life. I use a little carb cleaner with a small screwdriver to push the plunger out. You'll see the holes once it's removed and it's easy to figure out how to push it out. You'll probably see a lot of rusty liquid come out as you work it back and forth. Keep wiping it clean and using fresh cleaner and it will eventually pop out on its own if it still has life. I wouldn't soak them in anything because of the O-rings other than a little carb cleaner in the holes in the shaft once its out. Cover the hole in the pump with a clean rag while you have it out too.
