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Archive through February 05, 2012

IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum

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mgonitzke

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Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
4,740
Location
Wichita, KS
displayname
Matt Gonitzke
Harry-

If they're IH bolts I'd say they are original. I don't remember there being anything special about those bolts- they look like normal 3/8" bolts that are 2 1/4" long. As long as he has the correct length bolts in there, it should work.
 
Harry, (and Bill)-

I agree with Matt that new ISOs are fine. I think the bolt is a little longer than 2 1/4" but I'm not positive about that. The nut is called a Stover nut. They are suppose to be one time use type fasteners but I use them over and over myself. I've used the four best used ISO mounts on the bottom and after market rubber bushings on the top like I think are in a FAQ. That works but OEM is the way to go.
 
Harry, Those are called NyLock nuts..They have a nylon insert in them that acts as a locking device..I would throw the old fasteners away and get new grade 5 bolts and nylock nuts...
 
KEVIN - There's many different kinds of lock nuts. NyLock's are fine for relatively low temperature environments and moderate vibration. The Stover nuts Wayne mentions are actually much better. They're all metal, most times steel, the top threaded end is deformed to not be round and really gets a grip on the bolt/stud. Not effected my high or low temps, but like Wayne said, only supposed to be used a few times. But I use them several times. http://www.fastenermart.com/html/stover-lock-nuts.html
 
Neil A Mercer

Do you have another condenser to try on your tractor???? I would try a good one if you can rob one from another running tractor.
old.gif
 
Kevin-

I've worked on several QLs and always found them all to have Stover lock nuts for this application. I think height is important because of the exactness of the bolts length. I've actually tried nylocks here and found they couldn't get enough thread for proper locking due to the length of the bolt. I went and measured a bolt and they are 2 1/4" long; they just seemed longer in my thinking. Now if you use the after market rubber bushings the nylock will probably work ok. They won't have the metal inserts that limit the compression.

Here's why:

235073.jpg


If you try and cut the nylock the heat will quickly affect/melt/distort the nylon insert BTDT.
 
Neil A Mercer: I searched your older posts to refresh my memory. You started with the points and timing, and now you've gone through the fuel delivery system, including the carburetor. I would be pretty upset by this time, myself.

One Cheap thing to try: New Spark Plug.

Some forum members have reported unexpectedly good results from this simple action.

Another Cheap thing to try: New condenser.

If you haven't replaced it already, and even if you have, try another "known good" one. Even automotive capacitors will work, that's what is running on my Model 149.

If you've already tried these items, and you've been able to eliminate a mechanical source of failure (valves, cam, ACR), after a good night's sleep, I think I would try to monitor what is happening as it dies and backfires. That is, put a "spark tester" in line with the spark plug, and either use a mirror or have a second person operate the tractor so you can monitor the fuel into the carb.

For your situation, what I keep coming back to, is that the thing will start. Obviously, that means that enough of all the necessary components are there to "get the ball rolling" --compression, spark, and fuel-- so something must be happening AFTER the engine starts:

Hey, I've got it!

I'll bet your exhaust flow is blocked. It would explain all your symptoms.

The cure is easy: remove the muffler, with a hack saw if necessary.

Another possibility is a problem with the exhaust valve, but I don't see how the exhaust valve could work well enough to allow the motor to start, but then fail so quickly; the engine usually has to warm up a bit before the problem manifests itself, and if it is stuck open (it couldn't get stuck closed), its is easy to check its operation by listening closely as you turn the motor over, it will appear to have lost compression.

Anyway, its always darkest before the dawn; if you can stick it out a bit longer, I think you'll find the source of the problem, and it will feel so satisfying when you do.

smile.gif
 
Probably should have mentioned all that I have done before dont know why I didnt, just getting forgetful in my old age I guess. It has new points and condenser on it, as well as a new plug. and as far as exhaust being plugged I think my cat can attest to the fact that it is clear when she returns from where ever she went after the last time it backfired she was siting on the hood of my truck and jumped about four foot straight in the air and took off havent seen her all day. LOL
 
Dennis

thanks on setting me straight on that thing on the camshaft, I thought it was an advance mechanism of some sort. guess I should read the manual a bit more. Neil
 
Neil-
Have you tried bypassing the ignition switch. You could have an intermently bad contact in there which is allowing enough current to the points so it pops off a few times, then something heats up inside and craps out.

Just a thought...
 
Neil M. A little history about my Keepsake 1650. When I first got it... new ignition switch from P.O. Real cause of battery drain was a defective new battery and not the original switch. Not quite a year later... tractor was fussy starting. I cleaned all wires and the culprit was the ignition switch contacts were dirty. About the points push rod. They will look good and yet if OEM quite possibly be worn just enough to cause problems. THAT was another starting problem that I had to solve with the push rod looking good until close inspection.

About using the new OEM isomounts from MTD/Cub Cadet. Go for it and use them. The orignal isomounts or technical term is vibration isoloators (if one checks McMaster-Carr or Graingers catalogs) on the Keepsake 1650 were toast all around. Upon first adding the brace to the engine mounts and installing the new MTD factory mounts the ride was a "Strippers Delight" with excessive vibration. I stayed with those factory isomounts and now the tractor is one neat little fella to ride. Not much more vibration than the 125 or the 782D. As for bolts use the correct recommended length and grade and you will be fine. Same with the nuts. You will learn to fine tune your ride with the isomounts by letting them have a chance to get broken in and not go by "first ride" impression. Let the new isomounts get some hours on them. If you have to then do as I did and run the tractor ten to fifteen minutes and the shut if off if it shakes that bad. Keep repeating the process and let the tractor sit a few days.

One more thing... IF you begin to get frustrated to the point of "hurting" your Cub Cadet while working on it then for heaven's sake... BACK AWAY!!! It is an inanimate object. When you get that upset with anything just remember... a BFH does more harm to everything than good and all one does by venting frustration in such a manner is cause more damage.

Dennis F. Years ago a neighbor and his wife had an old Chevrolet with an automatic transmission that the only way it would finally start was to literally tow it in neutral up to 30-35 mph on gravel and then put the transmission into drive. On the day they traded the car the guy's Dad pulled him with the farm truck up to the 30-35 mph range... Car sputtered and started. Upon arriving at the dealership they left the car running and quickly signed the new car papers and left. I am not endorsing this however the "trick" must be to get everything up to a correct speed so that the sudden jolt will either cure or kill immediately.
 
hi all, i hope someone has an answer for me i have a 127 cub with a 12 hp motor, it runs great but when i start pulling it hard it starts to ping and will kill it if i dont let off the hydro, but if you back out of it, it runs fine again and it really only does it under a hard load. Any one have any idea what is going on with it. I only run reg gas no ethanol i know they dont run good on that on a hot day.

thanks cory
 
Cory- Ive also had that problem. Usually when I had trouble with that I was running the carb too lean or my points were off. Make sure the points are set at .020 and make sure the main jet is screwed out 2 turns (roughly).

Im sure other members will have better ideas, but its a good place to start IMO. Hope this helps.
 
Matt, Wayne, Kevin, Dennis and Marlin - I appreciate all the info on the "nuts". I believe every QL I worked on also had the Stover nut as Wayne noted. I had thought that based on the recommendation of having "1 thread exposed" it was extremely important for Bill to use a 2 1/4" bolt and the Stover type nut. If he used a Nylock nut it's a little taller (as you can see in Wayne's pic) and would probably have another turn (more compression) on it before 1 thread was exposed. Overall I like Marlin's suggestion of breaking the mounts in and then fine tuning them. And Wayne - thanks for getting a couple nuts and posting the pic. It certainly helps with all this. My bigger concern overall is not really knowing what Bill will find the PO did to the mounting. I think you all will admit if you are doing the ISO-mounts for the very first time AND the PO did not do them correctly and admitted it's really messed up, then it's going to be hard to do it correctly since you don't have the advantage of taking the original correct set up apart. I don't think the manual provides much info other than a pic and a couple details on the snubbers. I've actually seen a few different PO ideas that used solid rubber and a couple other things that were nothing like factory. I just hope Bill's ISO-bars can be re-used, and that he has some half decent snubbers on them, which don't get mentioned much on here either. I don't know why IH put the snubbers all the way at the front of the ISO-bar. I think the whole set up would work better if the snubber was set up in the middle of the ISO-bar where it would really limit the torque movement of the engine. But then again, I'm not an engineer

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (but sometimes their rubber mounts get weak so they start shak'in around).
 
Neil is your condenser grounded good and on the - side of the coil? I would static time the engine and make sure the points are clean. Then open the high speed needle in the carb to 2 turns and low needle to 1.75 turns then when it is runing adjust carb needles where they need to be to get smooth operation.
 
Harry-

I think the snubbers are there so the belt tension on the PTO clutch doesn't cause the mounts in the front to get crushed.
 
Neil A Mercer

Did you clean your new points ? I have gotten points here that had a coating on them and would not get a good spark,check your ground on the condenser and coil bracket to ground on the block.

Cory Cheever

A couple of things could make that 12 K spark knock (ping), was the carbon cleaned out of the head when the head gasket was replaced,carbon getting red hot and causing and early timing. My 129 12K is set at 16 on the points (they are not all the same). I run middle grade gas or high test gas in all my small engines , they work so much better and Have a lot more power with the hotter spark. My .02
 
I've got some of the iso mounts in a bag that came with the tractor, along with some purple/red poly mounts the PO tried to use. It may be that I've got some good original iso mounts from the top that I could re-use on the bottom.

Are the IH factory iso mounts indentical top and bottom? What are the visiual signs of a bad/wore-out iso mount?

Thanks!
Bill
 

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