7532 loader backhoe persistent diesel problem. Anyone else?

[gadebalko]

I am the second owner of this (largest compact Cub)
As such I was the first to change fluids and filters. I am beginning to think the anemic plastic
bowl micro diesel filter is a bad design. I don't get past a summer without needing replacement. An
the slightest freezing weather seems to gel the
off road diesel (with 911).
Are all larger tractors 7000 - 7500 type poorly
designed?

 

[mfrade]

Perhaps you're not getting good clean fuel. Are you buying a winter blend diesel?

 

[digger]

George D.
Don't buy off road. Go with a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2 and dump that 911.
I run my stuff at 25 to 40 below with no problems using this stuff for 8 months out of the year.

 

[snicklas]

Also, the Power Service 911 is for emergency use only, such as when you have gelled or frozen due to water. It does work, but is rough on components, because it’s a “fuel dryer” and I believe it used alcohol as the drying agent

I agree with Charlie, use on road that is always treated with something like the white bottle Power Service Winter Formula, which will help keep the fuel in good condition. I have 4 diesel trucks and in almost 15 years of having them, I think I have bought 2 bottles of 911, and that was to finish cleaning up a “Water in Fuel” issue.

Diesel doesn’t “go bad” like gas does. But if it sits it can collect moisture and cause issues. The “rule of thumb” for purchasing diesel fuel is to buy it from a station with a high turnover rate. I have one local station I buy all my diesel from, for this reason. Most stations that sell red diesel don’t sell as much as they do green.... I’ve learned that when I need diesel and red is legal, like in a Tractor, it’s worth a few extra cents to get on road that I know is “fresh”

 

[gadebalko]

I will start buying regular automotive diesel.
Also the white diesel (what ratio?).
With a plastic tank I would think only
cheap diesel would have issues.

I wish there was a way to run engine
heat towards the diesel filter and pump.
As I idled the tractor in 4 degree
weather the stalling got worse.

 

[digger]

George D.
Regular automotive diesel as you call it ain't gonna cut it!
If you want to be trouble free,
Go with a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2

 

[fcurrier]

Welcome, George!

You may have started a "Great Diesel Fuel Debate".
Is #1 what I know as Kerosene and #2 what comes out of the pump marked DIESEL at the gas station?

Or: Is #2 what I know as fuel oil that goes in the furnace?

 

[snicklas]

Frank,

#1 and #2 Diesel both are what comes from a vehicle diesel fuel pump. The difference is, #2 has a higher BTU per gallon, but will gel at relatively high temperature, in the 20’s Fahrenheit if I remember correctly. #2 is normally what is at the pump and can be labeled summer fuel. #1 has a lower gel point, but also has lower BTU’s. I’ve seen #1 called winter fuel. I’ve also seen a mix of the two, called winter blend, which helps to boost the BTU’s and gel temp. This is one reason why “winter fuel” usually causes lower fuel economy.

K1 kerosene is similar to diesel, but is normal refined/filtered to be cleaner, but it is also “dry”. There’s very little lubricity in kerosene. A diesel will run on it fine, but it is very hard on the components, as the fuel lubricates as it flows through everything

Fuel oil is also similar, but not the same.

Just like jet fuel, it’s related too.....

 

[dschwandt]

Skinny fuel lines don't help either in cold weather.
Find a way to heat/insulate the fuel tank and/or lines.
I doubt if these little smokers produce enough return fuel to keep what's in the tank warm to prevent gelling as opposed to a big bore diesel.

Keep the smoker Cub inside during cold weather, (or any weather for that matter) And welcome to the wonderful winter world of dealing with these issues Like I have been for 50 years!

 

[dfrisk]

Most stations, or actually the distributors that supply diesel fuel to retail stations start supplying the #1 & #2 winter blend around Halloween time anywhere north of the Mason-Dixson Line. You should be able to reliably run a diesel at temps above zero degrees F on that winter blend.
If you know a cold spell is coming then you should add the recommended amount of the white bottle Power Service, think it's a quart per 100 gallons so reduce that ratio to how ever much fuel you buy.

I've been around diesel powered equipment for 55 years and NEVER had a truck or tractor jell up on me.
The #1 fuel has fewer BTU per gallon, so less HP and less MPG, plus vehicles pull harder in winter. Company I used to drive semi for we did Lots and Lots of drop & hook cartage work. In winter it can take 50 miles for your truck and all it's tires to warm up so you can run your normal cruising speed. Drop that trailer, hook to another loaded trailer and start all over warming things up again.

 

[dschwandt]

Dennis, I'd say you have been outstandingly lucky to have never been gelled up on the road!

Happened to me 3 times last year with brand new snow plow trucks on the way to be delivered. These were Navistars and the damned primary filters were mounted on the frame rails just ahead of the tandems if you can believe that!! Oh, and no fuel heaters in the tanks either. Who in their right mind, besides some bureaucrat bean counter would order a snow plow truck w/o a fuel heater!! BTW, the wind shield defroster and wipers suck as well!!

The last time was at the shop before we even left, and this with so called "blended fuel" which, BTW, the supplier told us it's nothing more than an additive pkg!! What a bunch of BS!
After which they did start "really blending" it by cutting it with #1.

Each time we gelled, it entailed new filters and adding #1

About a year ago right about now we were heading to KCMO w/trucks and gelled about 25 miles before we even got to Des Moines. Of course these rigs were empty trucks so to speak with only wings and sanders installed. As such, the engines were not really working that hard whereas with a fully loaded 80K rig rolling will create enough hot return fuel to keep the fuel in the tanks warm, hopefully. Winter is hard on filters as the temp differences create lots of condensation in the tanks, best to keep them full as much as possible.

My first 2 Peterbilts (bought used) both had heated fuel lines as well as heaters in the tanks and the next 4 new trucks I spec'd w/heaters in the tanks, the last one, a KW also had an APU installed

 

[dschwandt]

Dennis, I'd say you have been outstandingly lucky to have never been gelled up on the road!

Happened to me 3 times last year with brand new snow plow trucks on the way to be delivered. These were Navistars and the damned primary filters were mounted on the frame rails just ahead of the tandems if you can believe that!! Oh, and no fuel heaters in the tanks either. Who in their right mind, besides some bureaucrat bean counter would order a snow plow truck w/o a fuel heater!! BTW, the wind shield defroster and wipers suck as well!!

The last time was at the shop before we even left, and this with so called "blended fuel" which, BTW, the supplier told us it's nothing more than an additive pkg!! What a bunch of BS!
After which they did start "really blending" it by cutting it with #1.

Each time we gelled, it entailed new filters and adding #1

One time we were heading to KCMO w/tricks and gelled about 25 miles before we even got to Des Moines. Of course these rigs were empty trucks so to speak with only wings and sanders installed. As such, the engines were not really working that hard whereas with a fully loaded 80K rig rolling will create enough hot return fuel to keep the fuel in the tanks warm, hopefully. Winter is hard on filters as the temp differences create lots of condensation in the tanks, best to keep them full as much as possible.

My first 2 Peterbilts (bought used) both had heated fuel lines as well as heaters in the tanks and the next 4 new trucks I spec'd w/heaters in the tanks, the last one, a KW also had an APU installed

 

[dfrisk]

Dave - Dad hauled fuel for FS, Growmark Industries out of Albany, Ill for 20+ years. He never had a truck gell up on him either. I had break-downs, and got left stranded. My danged Cousin passed me, saw me pull onto the shoulder of I-80 west bound around the 45-50 mile marker in Illinois, and he just kept hammering his smelly bull rack west bound. Had to have my Wife drive up to pick me up that night.
Then there was the night I got water in a cylinder thru a leaky intake manifold on my 903 Cummins, bent a conn rod enough the crankshaft counterweights were hitting the wrist pin bosses of the piston, knocked like all get out but after driving 25 miles of Chicago city traffic it stopped knocking, conn rod still bent, wrist pin bosses ground away by counterweights. There were various oil leaks from rusted out stamped steel oil pans, 903's had stamped steel pans, not cast aluminum like the 855's. Had my air dryer fail on me right by the Ottawa, Ill White dealer, still took 5 hours to get back on the road.
But never had fuel gelling problems. That situation I could control.
Son had a brand new 2014 Ram 2500 CTD until last summer. It never gelled up on him either. The DEF froze up a time or two. He finally had it deleated after he got a contaminated DEF fault code with 50 miles till "creep to the side of the road" for the third time. His dealer in Davenport kept telling him his DEF, Peak brand from Blains Farm & Fleet was the problem, He had to use Mopar DEF. Dealer must have been uninformed, only one company in Iowa makes ALL the DEF in the country, think it's in Ida Grove, Iowa.

Speaking of fuel heaters, 2 weeks ago SON and I replaced the fuel pump on my old 7.3L PSD, 305,000 miles and close to 20,000 gallons of fuel burned, it was time. Had a bad fuel leak, which turned out to be five hoses we replaced about 4-1/2 years ago, so resealed and cleaned the fuel filter canister. All new o-rings. Saw the fuel heater Navistar put in the canister right below the filter element. Piece of Ni-Chrome wire formed into a semi-circle about 3 inches in diameter. Now get this, It gets fed about 80 watts of 12V power, How warm is That going to keep 20 gallons of fuel in the fuel tank? It's powered by a Maxi-Fuse that also runs all the computers that run the engine, That fuse blows you coast to the side of the road. Fuel heater did not get put back in. Truck got SON to work Tuesday. Had Wednesday off, not sure what he drove yesterday, Wife's car, '18 Jeep, most likely, But I suspect my old truck is sitting in his work's parking lot right now waiting for him to go home about 2:30 this afternoon.

 

[jdiederichs]

Dennis, speaking of diesel fuel heaters on your Navistar engine, I wholeheartedly agree with your observation! I see that Stanadyne offers a nice in-line fuel heater which looks good! And less than 80 watts besides, lol.

George, that fuel filter or a reasonable copy is used by almost all the compact diesel manufacturers, so it must not be the problem. I am guessing that you had some summer diesel fuel left over, around here (WI) it's all blended from November till the warm weather returns.