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1872 and 364 snowblower
- Thread starter mgonitzke
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Steve B
Well I` am not going to need all that weight . just 100 lb in each wheel on my diesel . I think another approach to lift is in order . But I won`t say till I try out something I posted two years ago. I don`t understand why 300 lbs is needed on the back of that cub. The REAR wheels of Matt s cub is sitting on the ground with a heaver blower
> As Frank C would say ( I ain`t done yet). We are all here because someone did not give up.
Well I` am not going to need all that weight . just 100 lb in each wheel on my diesel . I think another approach to lift is in order . But I won`t say till I try out something I posted two years ago. I don`t understand why 300 lbs is needed on the back of that cub. The REAR wheels of Matt s cub is sitting on the ground with a heaver blower
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Don,
There is a big difference between on the ground and productive tractive effort....I personally don;t like using a simple blade without filled tires and +100# of wheel weights and my 260# butt, but that's just me...
There is a big difference between on the ground and productive tractive effort....I personally don;t like using a simple blade without filled tires and +100# of wheel weights and my 260# butt, but that's just me...
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Don-
I'm glad Steve B chimed in on this one. My "seat of the pants" brain was thinking what he said, but I didn't know if it was correct. Being an engineer by trade, Steve knows how weight distribution works.
Having said that, Robin's set up looks to be a really well designed and built set up. The #450 blower lift set up sucks, so I think you're smart to build another option if you want to make it better. I always wanted to make it lift hydraulically with a small cylinder out front, but never could figure out how to mount it. Now that I understand how the current lift system works, it's been fine for me.
I'll add in some thoughts on rear weight. My 2072 has #100 on each rear wheel.
This was "barely" enough weight to get good traction, (I'm #240) but then again, this is with the wider 26"X12" tires, so I would think that #100 on your narrower 10.50s would be fine. If you're going to be adding a Sims hard-cab, then you'll have PLENTY of weight. I noticed a HUGE difference in traction after going from the soft-cab to the hard-cab it has now. These steel and glass cabs are heavy.
I always think of weight as a balancing act. Too much weight on the back is going to eventually take away from steering. If I'm blowing snow and accidentally "hook" the edge of an existing snow bank while clearing the driveway, sometimes the front wheels will lose directional control. (tractor continues straight although the wheels are turned) Lifting the blower just a tiny bit (1/2") adds weight to the front end and helps gain front traction again. Once the tractor pulls away from the snow bank, the blower is lowered and all is well. It's kind of like dancing, only this woman weights #1,000+, smokes, and is loud.
LOL
Since your tractor is a diesel (heavier engine) it may respond differently with regards to weight distribution. If I were you, I would just hook up the blower as it is, add #100 of weight to the back and use it like that. Once you get some use out of it, you'll know what it needs and what it doesn't need. Right now you're kind of trying to fix a problem that may not be an issue worth worrying about.
Hope my rambling helps....
I'm glad Steve B chimed in on this one. My "seat of the pants" brain was thinking what he said, but I didn't know if it was correct. Being an engineer by trade, Steve knows how weight distribution works.
Having said that, Robin's set up looks to be a really well designed and built set up. The #450 blower lift set up sucks, so I think you're smart to build another option if you want to make it better. I always wanted to make it lift hydraulically with a small cylinder out front, but never could figure out how to mount it. Now that I understand how the current lift system works, it's been fine for me.
I'll add in some thoughts on rear weight. My 2072 has #100 on each rear wheel.
This was "barely" enough weight to get good traction, (I'm #240) but then again, this is with the wider 26"X12" tires, so I would think that #100 on your narrower 10.50s would be fine. If you're going to be adding a Sims hard-cab, then you'll have PLENTY of weight. I noticed a HUGE difference in traction after going from the soft-cab to the hard-cab it has now. These steel and glass cabs are heavy.
I always think of weight as a balancing act. Too much weight on the back is going to eventually take away from steering. If I'm blowing snow and accidentally "hook" the edge of an existing snow bank while clearing the driveway, sometimes the front wheels will lose directional control. (tractor continues straight although the wheels are turned) Lifting the blower just a tiny bit (1/2") adds weight to the front end and helps gain front traction again. Once the tractor pulls away from the snow bank, the blower is lowered and all is well. It's kind of like dancing, only this woman weights #1,000+, smokes, and is loud.
LOL
Since your tractor is a diesel (heavier engine) it may respond differently with regards to weight distribution. If I were you, I would just hook up the blower as it is, add #100 of weight to the back and use it like that. Once you get some use out of it, you'll know what it needs and what it doesn't need. Right now you're kind of trying to fix a problem that may not be an issue worth worrying about.
Hope my rambling helps....
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- Allen Schumacher
Art, how does that work out for clearing mosquitos in the summer ? ?
Art
Well I`am still going ahead changing the 450 over for the belt and lift issue . I posted a few years ago about using a cylinder to lift the blower and now have an idea I want to try. I have one lift cylinder off a 149 but I need two for this to work. In your picture of the tractor and snow blower ; I will put a cylinder on each side on the blower behind the second stage impeller and add a swivel wheel. run hose to each cylinder and use the front ports to power them. All the weight of the blower will be on the rubber tires of the wheels mounted to the cylinders. Please think of this and I would like your input. I need to rob another cylinder from a parts tractor to try this when I get the blower sub frame welded and painted .
I do think I will set up tires and add fluid just for winter on the 1512 . great idea. weight well I got lots here but I want as much as possible on the wheels ; I don`t like to much on the axle bearings. 2 x 75 lb 2 x 50 LB 6 sets Ih weights and 5 sets home made lead weight and an amo box 185 lbs . Plus 4 pcs of snow plow scraper from the high way trucks (heavy stuff 6' long )
Well I`am still going ahead changing the 450 over for the belt and lift issue . I posted a few years ago about using a cylinder to lift the blower and now have an idea I want to try. I have one lift cylinder off a 149 but I need two for this to work. In your picture of the tractor and snow blower ; I will put a cylinder on each side on the blower behind the second stage impeller and add a swivel wheel. run hose to each cylinder and use the front ports to power them. All the weight of the blower will be on the rubber tires of the wheels mounted to the cylinders. Please think of this and I would like your input. I need to rob another cylinder from a parts tractor to try this when I get the blower sub frame welded and painted .
I do think I will set up tires and add fluid just for winter on the 1512 . great idea. weight well I got lots here but I want as much as possible on the wheels ; I don`t like to much on the axle bearings. 2 x 75 lb 2 x 50 LB 6 sets Ih weights and 5 sets home made lead weight and an amo box 185 lbs . Plus 4 pcs of snow plow scraper from the high way trucks (heavy stuff 6' long )
proessler
Well-known member
Don T. FYI...On my 882D w/cat.O three point & A frame w/ weight bracket & 4-47# suitcase custom weight s, Carlisle All.Trail 10.50 s loaded & chained & 50# IH on each rear works great forward & reverse with my QA42A . I have to agree with Steve B...
But am considering fabbing drive system on a 2 Stage unit like Matt G with his 364 factory setup.
But am considering fabbing drive system on a 2 Stage unit like Matt G with his 364 factory setup.
rboulianne
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- Robin Boulianne
It is quite simple. Traction is directly proportional to weight and ground surface condition (or tire). The more weight is added and the better is the traction. Wheel's weight is surely better since the tractor body doesn't have the carry it. In addition, it provides a better energy storage by inertia momentum and this means greater pulling dynamic force.
In top of that, I already had these heavy weight in hands ...
In top of that, I already had these heavy weight in hands ...
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
.....BUT, wheel weights can twist axles due to the momentum....it's all a compromise.
+1 on the weight = more traction....especially in snow!
Don,
Your idea isn't bad, but you will need to mount the carry wheels to a subframe hinged to the blower housing (or similar) and the wheels will need to be large enough to roll over obstacles, not snag on them. Hyd. cylinders are LINEAR actuators, and do not take side loading well without additional support. Just mounting the caster to the end of the cylinder and clamping the cylinder body will not do....1st time you hit anything at all you will bend the cylinder rod.
My concern is that you may not have the room to steer the tractor and get big enough wheels mounted securely enough to make your design work....packaging will be the key.
FOR THE RECORD:
The 364 is the only 2 stage I've ever considered owning, and I like the mounting system very much, especially compared to the 450!!!! So far I don;t have a need for anything more than my Super QA-42A, but if I did, I would be looking the a junked out QA and a 2 stage off of something to fab up the 364 mount. My only comment with the whole thing is that while the mounting is different and further back, it doesn't change the weight distribution any.
Don,
Your 1512 may not handle the 450 as well as the 2072's pictured due to the 5-1/2" of extra frame length on the Super.......more leverage to counteract the heavy blower.
BTW, Rang out my QA-42 tonight on the 782.....power sucking monster, but moves the heavy snow!!!!
+1 on the weight = more traction....especially in snow!
Don,
Your idea isn't bad, but you will need to mount the carry wheels to a subframe hinged to the blower housing (or similar) and the wheels will need to be large enough to roll over obstacles, not snag on them. Hyd. cylinders are LINEAR actuators, and do not take side loading well without additional support. Just mounting the caster to the end of the cylinder and clamping the cylinder body will not do....1st time you hit anything at all you will bend the cylinder rod.
My concern is that you may not have the room to steer the tractor and get big enough wheels mounted securely enough to make your design work....packaging will be the key.
FOR THE RECORD:
The 364 is the only 2 stage I've ever considered owning, and I like the mounting system very much, especially compared to the 450!!!! So far I don;t have a need for anything more than my Super QA-42A, but if I did, I would be looking the a junked out QA and a 2 stage off of something to fab up the 364 mount. My only comment with the whole thing is that while the mounting is different and further back, it doesn't change the weight distribution any.
Don,
Your 1512 may not handle the 450 as well as the 2072's pictured due to the 5-1/2" of extra frame length on the Super.......more leverage to counteract the heavy blower.
BTW, Rang out my QA-42 tonight on the 782.....power sucking monster, but moves the heavy snow!!!!
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Allen-
When that pic was taken, it was -22 actual temp. I had just started up the tractor and idled it out of the garage with full-choke. Once the tractor warmed up and the choke was pushed in, the exhaust cleared up. This tractor doesn't burn oil or smoke at all.
Or, to answer your question...
Not very well at all!
When that pic was taken, it was -22 actual temp. I had just started up the tractor and idled it out of the garage with full-choke. Once the tractor warmed up and the choke was pushed in, the exhaust cleared up. This tractor doesn't burn oil or smoke at all.
Or, to answer your question...
Not very well at all!
rboulianne
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- Robin Boulianne
Here is my WheelHorse 875. It weights 1245 pounds and it is great for plowing snow. Rear wheel weights are for traction and front weights are for a better steering on ice.
Robin Boulianne
I see what looks like a home made cab in you profile picture , You got a sweet looking line up . I found a 14 hp Wheel horse here that had hyd added but the owner would not sell it. It sat for years but no sale. It also had the extra trans .
Steve B
Well I though the cylinder might not take much side force so I will have to use a sleeve . I` am thinking of 2" box iron. I still have a little std size here and the metric will slide inside it nice . So I still think it can be done . just some trial and lots of errors lol. Thanks for the info . It all helps make me start in the best possible direction . My big problem now is I ran out of paint on my 125 fenders and need to find a source of paint . All I can find around here is water born and that won`t do. I might have to go base clear just to finish them .
I think I better find some spare axles for my 1512 . I know the fine spline will stand more abuse but I don`t have any spares. I do have 4 of the regular Cub axles just in case I do break one on my loader.
I see what looks like a home made cab in you profile picture , You got a sweet looking line up . I found a 14 hp Wheel horse here that had hyd added but the owner would not sell it. It sat for years but no sale. It also had the extra trans .
Steve B
Well I though the cylinder might not take much side force so I will have to use a sleeve . I` am thinking of 2" box iron. I still have a little std size here and the metric will slide inside it nice . So I still think it can be done . just some trial and lots of errors lol. Thanks for the info . It all helps make me start in the best possible direction . My big problem now is I ran out of paint on my 125 fenders and need to find a source of paint . All I can find around here is water born and that won`t do. I might have to go base clear just to finish them .
I think I better find some spare axles for my 1512 . I know the fine spline will stand more abuse but I don`t have any spares. I do have 4 of the regular Cub axles just in case I do break one on my loader.
sblunier
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- Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow" (Central IL)
Don,
IMHO those will never hold up...first piece of froze ice will beat them up. 3x bigger wheels and rated for 3x to 4x more weight is what I would use.
Those casters are not meant for lots of rolling, just occasionally moving some furniture around.....blower will eat them up.
IMHO those will never hold up...first piece of froze ice will beat them up. 3x bigger wheels and rated for 3x to 4x more weight is what I would use.
Those casters are not meant for lots of rolling, just occasionally moving some furniture around.....blower will eat them up.
proessler
Well-known member
I just found a product @ Farm & Fleet on sale that might be another option to EZ-Slide Graphite-Based Coating. That is what I've used on snow moving equipment before. New to me is DuPont Teflon Snow & Ice Repellent Part #DSR610101 @ $3/10 oz. can.
It's clear & I sprayed it on my QA42A to give it a field test tryout when the next snow comes...
It's clear & I sprayed it on my QA42A to give it a field test tryout when the next snow comes...
