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1862 wiring diagram
- Thread starter dcmay
- Start date
Help Support IH Cub Cadet Tractor Forum:
Maybe the wiring diagram section, under the topics tab at the top of every page?
jchamberlin
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Odd. I found the 1862 Wiring Diagrams OK when I used the Index entry "Garden Tractors (1806 - 2284)."
I found the following two (2) pages for an 1862.
Page 1, Chassis Wiring:
Page 2, Wiring for the Indicators:
Dan C. May: I sent you PDF pages via e-mail.
I found the following two (2) pages for an 1862.
Page 1, Chassis Wiring:
Page 2, Wiring for the Indicators:
Dan C. May: I sent you PDF pages via e-mail.
Jeremiah and Ron G.
I made a mistake putting a message on regular forum as I thought I was on CCC&MTD>
Anyway I now have the 1862 running great.I replaced the Mag and fired right away.What Jeremiah's wiring diagram calls a mag is what I called a coil.This is my first CCC by MTD and may be my last.The wire that is on the Mag goes to M terminal on the ignition switch and is only used to shut the engine off by grounding the Mag.The mag must have gone bad after he parked it last fall.
Thanks guys for your help,
Dan
I made a mistake putting a message on regular forum as I thought I was on CCC&MTD>
Anyway I now have the 1862 running great.I replaced the Mag and fired right away.What Jeremiah's wiring diagram calls a mag is what I called a coil.This is my first CCC by MTD and may be my last.The wire that is on the Mag goes to M terminal on the ignition switch and is only used to shut the engine off by grounding the Mag.The mag must have gone bad after he parked it last fall.
Thanks guys for your help,
Dan
Dan..Glad to hear you got it running!! Those are strong engines. I've owned 3 different Cub Cadets with that engine and only had to put a stator on 1. My 1st 1 had 1,000 hrs on it when I sold it and it was still running strong. The other 2 had 600 and 800 hrs when i sold them. Regular maintenance was all I ever did to them. Glad we could help you !
jchamberlin
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Thanks for the update, Dan. Glad to hear you were able to get it running.
jchamberlin
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Dan: I can't resist clarifying the point about the "coil" vs. magneto. Actually, both the typical Cub Cadet Kohler motors with battery ignition systems and later CCC/MTD tractors that used Kohler "Mag" engines had "coils;" in fact both kinds of motors actually had two (2) coils each. But the two coil configurations work very differently.
Electrically, the older Cub Cadet's battery ignition coil is a step-up transformer. The 12 volts found at the (+) terminal of the coil is actually the voltage of the "top side" at the primary winding (plus an in-line, internal resistor, bringing the effective voltage of the primary winding down into the neighborhood of 6 volts --but that's another story). The "bottom side" of the primary winding is connected to ground through the ignition points. When the points "break" the connection to ground (hence the term "breaker points") the field built up around the primary winding collapses. The collapsing field of the primary induces a voltage in the secondary winding. Because the secondary winding has many more turns than the primary winding, the voltage induced is much higher, although the current is lower. The higher voltage in the secondary coil finds its path to ground through the gap at the end of the spark plug's electrode. Thus, the "coil" of the older Cub Cadet's battery ignition system is a special-purpose transformer.
The magneto found on the Kohler "Mag" engines also has two (2) coils; a primary, and a secondary. They also are arranged to "step-up" the voltage. The ratio of turns is likely the same, I'm not sure; but the magneto operates very differently from the ignition coil. The magneto does not require a connection to the battery. Again, a battery is not needed to fire the spark plug of a motor equipped with a magneto. Instead, the magneto receives its current from a magnet passing by its primary coil. The coils of a magneto are configured a bit differently than an ignition coil. Whereas the battery ignition coil has a single pole, with the primary wound inside the secondary; the magneto has a U-Shaped armature. The primary coil is wound around one leg of the "U". The magnet is attached to the flywheel. The two "feet" of the magneto's "U" armature are pointed toward the flywheel. As the magnet passes the primary winding, a voltage is induced in the coil. When the primary winding is saturated, the current is broken by either an electronic ignition, or, in older motors, a set of breaker points. Again, the collapsing field of the large-wire, few-turns primary induces a much higher voltage in the fine-wire, many-turns secondary; which also finds its path to ground through the electrode of the spark plug. The same end is achieved (spark at the plug), using some of the same components (primary and secondary windings, and some means to break the current / induce the higher voltage). The difference is that the magneto does not draw on the battery as its source of current, but on a passing magnet. Another way of thinking about a magneto is that it is an electro-magnet in reverse: the current doesn't produce a magnet; the magnet produces (induces) a current.
As I have noted elsewhere, the challenge of the magneto equipped engine is stopping it, not starting it.
The only reason I felt compelled to comment on your use of the word "coil" is because you kept mentioning that you "didn't have 12 volts at the coil." My point is, that you will never FIND 12 volts at the coil of a magneto (well, perhaps briefly as the magnet passes by). Better, you shouldn't be looking for 12 volts at the "coil" of a magneto; you just don't want to find that it is being held to ground by a safety or frayed insulation on a wire.
Note: I realize I haven't been crystal clear on all points; I really need to cut up both an ignition coil and a (non-functioning) magneto to learn more about how the coils are actually configured. The write-ups I found on the web were a bit confusing.
Electrically, the older Cub Cadet's battery ignition coil is a step-up transformer. The 12 volts found at the (+) terminal of the coil is actually the voltage of the "top side" at the primary winding (plus an in-line, internal resistor, bringing the effective voltage of the primary winding down into the neighborhood of 6 volts --but that's another story). The "bottom side" of the primary winding is connected to ground through the ignition points. When the points "break" the connection to ground (hence the term "breaker points") the field built up around the primary winding collapses. The collapsing field of the primary induces a voltage in the secondary winding. Because the secondary winding has many more turns than the primary winding, the voltage induced is much higher, although the current is lower. The higher voltage in the secondary coil finds its path to ground through the gap at the end of the spark plug's electrode. Thus, the "coil" of the older Cub Cadet's battery ignition system is a special-purpose transformer.
The magneto found on the Kohler "Mag" engines also has two (2) coils; a primary, and a secondary. They also are arranged to "step-up" the voltage. The ratio of turns is likely the same, I'm not sure; but the magneto operates very differently from the ignition coil. The magneto does not require a connection to the battery. Again, a battery is not needed to fire the spark plug of a motor equipped with a magneto. Instead, the magneto receives its current from a magnet passing by its primary coil. The coils of a magneto are configured a bit differently than an ignition coil. Whereas the battery ignition coil has a single pole, with the primary wound inside the secondary; the magneto has a U-Shaped armature. The primary coil is wound around one leg of the "U". The magnet is attached to the flywheel. The two "feet" of the magneto's "U" armature are pointed toward the flywheel. As the magnet passes the primary winding, a voltage is induced in the coil. When the primary winding is saturated, the current is broken by either an electronic ignition, or, in older motors, a set of breaker points. Again, the collapsing field of the large-wire, few-turns primary induces a much higher voltage in the fine-wire, many-turns secondary; which also finds its path to ground through the electrode of the spark plug. The same end is achieved (spark at the plug), using some of the same components (primary and secondary windings, and some means to break the current / induce the higher voltage). The difference is that the magneto does not draw on the battery as its source of current, but on a passing magnet. Another way of thinking about a magneto is that it is an electro-magnet in reverse: the current doesn't produce a magnet; the magnet produces (induces) a current.
As I have noted elsewhere, the challenge of the magneto equipped engine is stopping it, not starting it.
The only reason I felt compelled to comment on your use of the word "coil" is because you kept mentioning that you "didn't have 12 volts at the coil." My point is, that you will never FIND 12 volts at the coil of a magneto (well, perhaps briefly as the magnet passes by). Better, you shouldn't be looking for 12 volts at the "coil" of a magneto; you just don't want to find that it is being held to ground by a safety or frayed insulation on a wire.
Note: I realize I haven't been crystal clear on all points; I really need to cut up both an ignition coil and a (non-functioning) magneto to learn more about how the coils are actually configured. The write-ups I found on the web were a bit confusing.
Jeremiah, I have read your note 3 time and I will probably read it 10 more times.I really appreciate your interest in getting me straitened out.Now that I understand how a Mag works I understand why you were so alarmed when I wanted 12v at the Mag.This is my first twin and sure am learning a lot.As you explained the only wire connected to the Mag is a ground wire to kill the engine.After studying the diagram you sent me I saw the light.By the way what did you do to find that wiring diagram?I have looked everywhere and I haven't found them.
Thanks again Jeremiah and I know you will keep an eye out for me to keep me straight.
Dan
Thanks again Jeremiah and I know you will keep an eye out for me to keep me straight.
Dan
jchamberlin
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Dan C. May: I'm going to respond in two parts. First, thank you for reading my earlier post. I hope it helped you gain an understanding of how a Magneto works. I found I had to look a few things up myself in order to teach you what I thought I knew.
It's funny, but I stumbled across a section in the Kohler Service Manual for the K-Series which covers the same topic I did below, WITH ILLUSTRATIONS!
I need to read the manual myself!
(If you don't know what RTFM means, ask someone in industry
)
From page 8.1 Kohler Service Manual
[Begin Quote with section header]
Magneto Ignition System Operation
In all magneto ignition systems, high-strength permanent magnets provide the energy for ignition. In rotor type systems, the magnet is pressed onto the crankshaft and is rotated inside a coil-core assembly (stator) mounted to the bearing plate. In other systems, a permanent magnet ring on the inside of the flywheel revolves around the stator. Movement of the magnets past the stator induces electric current flow in the stator coil (and in alternator and lighting coils if provided). The magnets are mounted with alternate North and South poles so that the direction of magnetic flux constantly changes, producing an alternating current (AC) in the stator coil windings. Refer to figure 8-1.
The stator windings are connected to the magneto ignition coil. Current flow in the ignition coil reaches its highest peak at the instant the magnetic flux reverses direction. This is the point at which the system is timed to provide spark at the spark plug.
The ignition coil has a low tension [or voltage] primary winding and a high tension [or voltage] secondary winding. The secondary winding has approximately 100 turns of wire for every turn in the primary. This relationship causes the voltage induced in the secondary windings to be about 100 times higher than in the primary. If the magneto produces 250 volts in the primary winding, the secondary winding voltage will be 25,000 volts.
When ignition is required, the breaker points open to break the primary circuit. The resultant sudden collapse of the field around the the primary winding causes sufficient energy to be produced in the secondary winding to bridge the spark plug gap. The collapsing field also induces energy in the primary winding, but the condensor [capacitor] shunts this energy to ground, preventing it from bridging the breaker point gap. Figure 8-2 shows a typical stator and coil assembly.
[End Quote]
The text goes on to describe how to set the timing on a magneto ignition, as well as describing how the other two (2) types of ignition work on a Kohler motor, namely, the Battery Ignition and the Breakerless (Electronic) Ignition System.
It's funny, but I stumbled across a section in the Kohler Service Manual for the K-Series which covers the same topic I did below, WITH ILLUSTRATIONS!
I need to read the manual myself!
From page 8.1 Kohler Service Manual
[Begin Quote with section header]
Magneto Ignition System Operation
In all magneto ignition systems, high-strength permanent magnets provide the energy for ignition. In rotor type systems, the magnet is pressed onto the crankshaft and is rotated inside a coil-core assembly (stator) mounted to the bearing plate. In other systems, a permanent magnet ring on the inside of the flywheel revolves around the stator. Movement of the magnets past the stator induces electric current flow in the stator coil (and in alternator and lighting coils if provided). The magnets are mounted with alternate North and South poles so that the direction of magnetic flux constantly changes, producing an alternating current (AC) in the stator coil windings. Refer to figure 8-1.
The stator windings are connected to the magneto ignition coil. Current flow in the ignition coil reaches its highest peak at the instant the magnetic flux reverses direction. This is the point at which the system is timed to provide spark at the spark plug.
The ignition coil has a low tension [or voltage] primary winding and a high tension [or voltage] secondary winding. The secondary winding has approximately 100 turns of wire for every turn in the primary. This relationship causes the voltage induced in the secondary windings to be about 100 times higher than in the primary. If the magneto produces 250 volts in the primary winding, the secondary winding voltage will be 25,000 volts.
When ignition is required, the breaker points open to break the primary circuit. The resultant sudden collapse of the field around the the primary winding causes sufficient energy to be produced in the secondary winding to bridge the spark plug gap. The collapsing field also induces energy in the primary winding, but the condensor [capacitor] shunts this energy to ground, preventing it from bridging the breaker point gap. Figure 8-2 shows a typical stator and coil assembly.
[End Quote]
The text goes on to describe how to set the timing on a magneto ignition, as well as describing how the other two (2) types of ignition work on a Kohler motor, namely, the Battery Ignition and the Breakerless (Electronic) Ignition System.
jchamberlin
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Dan C. May: To access the Wiring Diagrams, navigate as follows:
At the same level of the Forum at which you branch off to enter the "CCC and MTD Machines & Equipment" section you should also find an entry to "Wiring Diagrams" section of the IH Cub Cadet Forum. If you enter this section, you will be confronted with two choices, one of which will say, "Click here for Wiring Diagrams (PDF)." If you click there, like Alice through the Looking Glass, you will be transported to a smart PDF document complete with the index I posted below. Simply click on your range of tractors, and a sub-menu will appear from which your model can be chosen.
If you still can't find the wiring diagram you want, I suggest contacting one of the Forum moderators for a direct link. I'm philosophically opposed to posting a link, because I believe you need to figure out how to get the information for yourself, but I may hold the minority opinion.
Regarding the information on the Magneto, I discovered a rather complete explanation of its operation (with illustrations) in the Kohler Service Manual for the "K-Series" motors which I think reinforces what I wrote and probably does it better. It certainly gave me a better understanding of why the magneto has two "poles" (to match the magnet) and it helped me better understand the role of the condenser in the system's operation. The system in your 1862 would be classified as "Breakerless" but the manual explains it too, as well as the more familiar "Battery Ignition System" found on most of the Cub Cadets produced before 1981. In fact, I don't know that IH ever produced a Garden Tractor that employed Magneto or "Breakerless" Ignition Systems, although I stand to be corrected. (Folks on this site are always ready to point out where you err; which, of course, is how you learn to get it right in the end.
I think the Kohler Service Manuals are available from this site, but I KNOW they are available from the Kohler Engines home site, again, a link to which I will NOT post on the belief that you should be able to find it yourself. Feel free to e-mail me if you are REALLY having trouble finding information, but I believe you can ferret it out. After all, you work on Cub Cadets, don't you?
At the same level of the Forum at which you branch off to enter the "CCC and MTD Machines & Equipment" section you should also find an entry to "Wiring Diagrams" section of the IH Cub Cadet Forum. If you enter this section, you will be confronted with two choices, one of which will say, "Click here for Wiring Diagrams (PDF)." If you click there, like Alice through the Looking Glass, you will be transported to a smart PDF document complete with the index I posted below. Simply click on your range of tractors, and a sub-menu will appear from which your model can be chosen.
If you still can't find the wiring diagram you want, I suggest contacting one of the Forum moderators for a direct link. I'm philosophically opposed to posting a link, because I believe you need to figure out how to get the information for yourself, but I may hold the minority opinion.
Regarding the information on the Magneto, I discovered a rather complete explanation of its operation (with illustrations) in the Kohler Service Manual for the "K-Series" motors which I think reinforces what I wrote and probably does it better. It certainly gave me a better understanding of why the magneto has two "poles" (to match the magnet) and it helped me better understand the role of the condenser in the system's operation. The system in your 1862 would be classified as "Breakerless" but the manual explains it too, as well as the more familiar "Battery Ignition System" found on most of the Cub Cadets produced before 1981. In fact, I don't know that IH ever produced a Garden Tractor that employed Magneto or "Breakerless" Ignition Systems, although I stand to be corrected. (Folks on this site are always ready to point out where you err; which, of course, is how you learn to get it right in the end.
I think the Kohler Service Manuals are available from this site, but I KNOW they are available from the Kohler Engines home site, again, a link to which I will NOT post on the belief that you should be able to find it yourself. Feel free to e-mail me if you are REALLY having trouble finding information, but I believe you can ferret it out. After all, you work on Cub Cadets, don't you?
John Halper
Active member
My name is john. If you could be any help with. 1862 & a wore out 18 magnum. Putting in 20 command. Matching the wiring. I would be very thankful.
