By Ryan D Wilke (Rwilke) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:40 pm:

David R. / Paul R. / Dennis F.,
Thanks guys for all the thoughts and suggestions!
I'll have to mull them over and discuss them with my son.

I like the idea of just going with taller and wider rather than duals. I agree that duals would make the rig pretty darn wide! I like the idea of finding some bearings that may allow us to run SGT tires/rims on the 86 Cub 3/4" spindles. But steering may be limited if the tires/rims don't have enough of the proper offset. Locating some SGT tires might also be a trick in itself..... But, all good ideas/thoughts.

Thanks again, Guys!

Ryan Wilke

By Dave Ross (Dross) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 11:28 am:

Ryan, I ment it would have a tendency to push rather than turn. My front tires are the rear tires off some pos dad had laying around the shop with no purpose, stock cub rims, they are close but clear. The river bottom I was on had everthing as far as dirt goes. gumbo, peat, and sand. I found staying on top was usually my best bet. If I did break the crust especially after a flood there was no telling where the bottom was.
increasing the tire size on the trailer helps for ground clearance and floatation, so, yea I'd say thats a good thing

By Dennis Frisk (Dfrisk) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:56 am:

RYAN - I don't know exactly what type of ground Your Son is trying to get over but if it's wet mud duals would probably hurt more than help. They really widen out the tractor which would make fitting into tight places impossible, the also put a lot of force on the axles & hubs. Typically, speaking from experience, once You get onto soft ground with a dualed-up tractor it really doesn't make any difference where You try to steer, the drive tire with the best footing which is normally AWAY from the deepest & wettest mud will turn You right into the middle if the wet spot.

Like Paul said, individual steering brakes help a little but once a tire starts spinning Your just about stuck.

The frt tires a Super Garden tractor have are an 18-8.50 X 8, all the SGT CC's had 1" spindles and 7 inch wide frt wheels, but You may be able to find bearings to fit a 3/4" spindle. I have no idea if the OEM SGT wheels will fit on an 86 but I kinda doubt it.
For rear tires I think something taller & wider would work much better than dualed-up 12" tires, maybe something like a 31-10.50 X 15 or a 31-12.50 x 15 mud-bogging tire for a 4WD. The SGT rear tires are 26-12.00 X 12's so You'd gain 2-1/2 inches of ground clearance over those or around four inches compared to the stock 23-8.50 or 23-10.50 x 12 rear tires. A wheel with more off-set would help keep the tractor from getting too tippy also.

The job of hauling wood off a muddy riverbank sounds like a good job for a 4WD ATV.

By Paul W.Roessler (Proessler) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:13 am:

Ryan W Another thought might be to add right & left rear brake pedals if that is possible,like the super GT's. Then use as a poor man's differential lock to help in those sticky situations...I have used alternate braking with full size tractors in the past to get out of slippy conditions.

By Ryan D Wilke (Rwilke) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:10 am:

Dave R.,
Another quick thought/question: My son & I also discussed changing out the axle on his small utility trailer to a longer one that would allow us to install some wider Cub tires on it. Then we also looked at the hitch, wanting to raise that up to get that more level.

Would you think that raising the trailer hitch point would also be beneficial for towing just as it benefits tractor-pulling rigs?

Ryan Wilke

By Ryan D Wilke (Rwilke) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:04 am:

Dave R.,
Thanks for the reply and ideas!

Yep, we discussed increasing the height of the rear tire, even talked about the possibility of giving the Cub a 'body lift' to allow more tire height in the rear, but knew that we'd also run into issues with the available shifter throw and length and necessary mods to the clutch pedal if raised too much; maybe 1.5" blocks is all.

He runs chains in the river muck now and finds them very beneficial. Yep, maybe the inside tires would be bar tires; don't know if we can locate/buy four of them!

You mentioned that locking the rear end would be antiproductive - do you mean that the engine doesn't/wouldn't have the power to turn both axles if buried down or do you mean it couldn't turn the tractor because the front tires would simply push and not bite to turn the rig in the slippery river muck?

Yes, we were also discussing increasing the front tire height and width. We were discussing maybe some slim & tall bar tires up front; we don't have a size determined yet....looking for ideas yet. You mentioned your 149 has 1850 10 8 front tires - do you have any more info on them? Maybe a link to a picture and where they can be had? What front rims are you using?

This rig isn't ever asked to mow, just tow. Another plan is to pull the 10HP and install a freshened 12HP in its place this Winter...

Thanks again for all the thoughts, ideas and suggestions!

Ryan Wilke

By Dave Ross (Dross) on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 12:13 am:

Ryan, I have some expirience with running a riverbank with a cub. Duals are a good idea along with the largest tire you can afford. chains and or bar tires for sure. Locking the rear end is antiproductive, when he gets in the slime he'll never turn it. something else to think about is increasing the front tire size. I think the front tires on my 149 are 1850 10 8 for just that reason. IMHO YMMV

By Ryan D Wilke (Rwilke) on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:09 pm:

Fellas,
This isn't a pulling inquiry, but I figured the Cub experts here would have some imput to my questions.

My son uses his Cub (a model 86 with a 10HP Kohler) to pull a small 3'x 4' x 3' high trailer to gather firewood out from along the riverbank behind his place. The terrain can be very soft and very 'iffy' most of the time. He asked me for advice on his latest idea which is to go to duals and put a spool in the rearend. Now I don't see a big issue with the duals, other than getting crap jammed in between the duals, but I don't see any way to avoid that. As you know a spool would replace the differential and to two wheels would be on the same drive spline. Do you guys have any ideas/suggestions/warnings/advice you could share regarding running duals and/or if a spool can be installed and the +/-'s of doing so.

Thanks in Advance for your expertise, Guys!
Ryan Wilke

By Kyle Redlinger (Kredlinger) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 10:10 pm:

HEY VINCE!! 2 times now I've sat on the little 10hp with those "MAGICAL" Firstones with a 1st & a 2nd so far. Here's a pic of a friends boy driving it for his first time.

By George Klapp (Gklapp) on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 10:38 am:

Aaron, putting TALLER tires on IS like changing gears, much easier than changing a ring and pinion gearset. There is a significant difference between the circumferance of the 23" and the 26" tires, change those first, then determine whether you need to change gears. Beware that pulling tires need to be measured by circumferance and not go by the tire sidewall markings, there is a large variation in ACTUAL/real sizes from ALL stated/marked tire sizes from the manufacturers.

Curious about you flipping the pump, why and how did you do it ??

Also, most pulling groups have safety regulations for engine block side shields and hydro pump and driveline/u-joint shielding. I'm sure that the v8 hydros are turning much more than the 4200 rpm factory limit, you'll want to have a spare or two though. Another note, although the Zoomie style headers look nice and are easy to make, on naturally aspirated multiple cylindered engines a proper collectored header (a merge collector is best) will ALWAYS make for better response and a broader power range, stronger AND sounds better too !! Only supercharged engines use zoomies.

By Aaron Schmidt - Xtreme Motorworks (Aschmidt) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 02:30 pm:

Thanks guys for the information. I did put the motor in so that the balancer is to the front, flipped the pump and also the ring gear / carrier. I think that 26x12-12 will get me some better traction due to the contact patch, but feel some faster gears would also help - According to the sunstrand manual - the pump can take 4200 rpm. I run 4100 rpm so far - and no problems.

By George Klapp (Gklapp) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:27 am:

Aaron, if you didn't put the v6 in backwards (drive off the balancer) you'll have to flip the ring gear carrier because engine rotation is opposite of g.t. engines. I think you should have the fine spline axles in that unit so you should be good there. Axle breakage is common with the smaller course spline axles with the v8's, several of these tractors are in a couple of clubs in NY, (new popular 1500 lb. class in Central NY and Brookfield).

By George Klapp (Gklapp) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:03 am:

Aaron, I'm building a v8 hydro 1250 Cub for a fella that has the same idea. The easiest way to go faster is to just put taller pulling tires on it, 26x12x12, those 23"s will turn too easy. I told him to call Venko Bizjak of True Gear (Canada), Venko said no problem. You may need to send the stock gears from the hydro unit and what ratio you want. True gear has produced aftermarket pulling gearsets for years for the geardrive transaxles. Custom gears are reasonably priced and quick service too, no problem with customs or shipping to states.

http://www.true-gear.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10191151@N05/sets/72157610283447042/

http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/Thunderbolt51

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Geos_Place/

By Dave Ross (Dross) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:02 am:

Aaron, U know if that had a gear drive transmission the speed would be more in tune with the rpm. I Don't Know what that V-6 turns but with 26 inch tires and the 4-1 reduction housing off an original (driven direct) could give you around 30 miles an hour for a little while. With a creeper you could still pull a plow. Course all this is untill the top shaft looks like a pretzle and most of the teeth are missing completly.

By Aaron Schmidt (Aschmidt) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 11:23 pm:

Hey guys, I have a 782 with a 2.8 chevy v6 coupled to the stock hydro drivetrain. I havent pulled with it yet but want to try it this fall. Ive got plenty of power but tire speed is still same as its was as a stock 782. Do they make any re-gearing gears for these hydros? Any info or links would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

By Evan Wank (Ewank) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 04:20 am:

Rules say must have 5/16" cable around engine, oil pan to head

By Glen Erickson (Gerickson) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 09:59 pm:

Evan, do you build enough pressure to pop the head off that thing? I see it is cabled down. Or is it just for safety.

By Kraig McConaughey "Keeper of the Photos" (Kmcconaughey) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 08:39 am:

Nice, very nice!

By Richard Palmer (Rpalmer) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 05:05 pm:

Great pictures Guys!

Evan Wank, Ca-Ching!

There is a very modified puller on a popular auction site with a 1100 or 1000 cc MC engine...5k!

By Evan Wank (Ewank) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 03:38 pm:

For those of you that have an interest in 3 cylinder turbo charged garden tractor pulling here are some pictures of our engine in Smokin Ice Storm

By Kyle Redlinger (Kredlinger) on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 10:05 pm:

Vince, got to use them once now on a track that got a bit too much rain the day before & was a bit slimy, they didn't work quite as good. We'll find out this friday & Sunday how well they do (if mother nature doesn't tell us to stay indoors)

By Ben P. Corn (Bcorn) on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 01:47 pm:

First off gang I am so glad to see your families involving the younger ones. Many of us guys stand and applaud the little ones as they pull!

This is how we keep the sport alive and families stay closer! Priceless.

Many of us have agrued the weight on the rim or hooking it to the back. My thoughts from a gray haired man is this; get the tires to bite as good as they can with weight then balance the tractor with weight to the front and weight on the rear.

Always remember different tracks take different combinations and that friends makes it fun.

Pops

By joe cleer (Jcleer) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 10:12 am:

Thanks Vince I think I will build a mount for the rear lift like you did. I have two weeks to do it so I have time. Thanks again. I will post results and pics.

By Vincent Thomley (Vthomley) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 04:07 pm:

Joe, the weight on the back help counter act the heavy nose, kind like a teeter toter on the grade school play ground. We would have put more on the back if we could fit in on. I see we put 90 in front of the wheels, and I see we failed to put any under the seat. The 90 in front of the wheels also help keep the front down. This day we had 3 or 4 Cubs pulling in the off the lawn class, we ran out of weights and were swaping from one tractor to another. Here's a pic of me carrying wights from one to another.


In this stock lawn class you'll need most of your weight at the rear axles. If it were me I would put as much in the back plus wheel weights. like this one.

But this one with narrow tires pulled the furthest. Plus most of the weights were in front of the tires.

Here is a pic of the 122 pulling in the 800 pound class. It had only 4 weights on the back.

By joe cleer (Jcleer) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:46 pm:

Oh and yes your butt must stay in contact with the seat here too. The big thing with the weight is for my son. They have youngster class and he is 6 so I have more weight to play with for him...

By joe cleer (Jcleer) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:41 pm:

So which is ideal in front of the rear tire or behind the seat?? Or does it really matter?

By Vincent Thomley (Vthomley) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 11:12 am:

Joe,

If you are pulling with a stock hitch your front won't lift up much. See the next pic. This is at 1000 pounds and almost all the added weight is on the back ~approx~ 150 pounds worth hanging off the rear lift. This has a pulling hitch in it set at 11" high which is about an inch higher than the standard hitch. During his pull the front was light but did not come off the ground.

The front Z casting on your 105 weight approx 42 pounds so it has plenty of weight up there. Your body leaning forward or back tranfers weight very well. Most club rules state you must be on the seat but you can slie forward or back, left or right as needed.

By joe cleer (Jcleer) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:29 am:

Going to pull for the first time. 105 Hydro in lawn stock class. Was in the general forum got some help but came to this page to get more input.... So I should have around 100-150 pounds to play with. Was told to get it on the back. So I shouldn't worry about getting it on the front somehow???? Any help is great.TIA

By Vincent Thomley (Vthomley) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 09:53 am:

Clint,

I agree with Mick, start in 2nd gear and depending on how much power you have after the 950 class then you can decide to stay in 2nd or go to 1st.

Also use a bugee cord or something to lock your shfter into gear. A tight bugee cord wrapped around the tunnel and over the shifter will help keep it in second.

Go get them! Have fun! TAKE PICS !!!!!!!!!!

Kyle, I agree I love those tires! Oh, I don't have them anymore. Let me know whow they work for ya! This is a close up of the Non Cut ones.

This is a pic with 24x12x12s

By clint Arnold (Carnold) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 09:53 pm:

thanks mick and nice tractor. ill let you now how my pull goes with my new big cub.

By Kyle Redlinger (Kredlinger) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 08:57 pm:

Hey Vincent! Nice tires!!!!

By Mick morgan (Memorgan) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 07:39 pm:

Clint, 2nd will be your best bet to start with If you can start the sled in 3rd you'll be REALLY straining your drive train. Don't see what horsepower your runnin but till you get a feel for things start slow. Go back to the June 15th entry. Thats my 12hp in action. Mick

By clint Arnold (Carnold) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 03:22 pm:

Ok guys now thati have my hitch and im all ready to go to a pull this weekend but the last thing i need to know is what gear you would recomend pulling in for 950 pound class 1050 and also 1150. Im using stock gears in my transmission and was planning on going in third and think that i have enough power but i just wanted another opinion on it. thanks. cant wait to go to the pulls this weekend.

By Vincent Thomley (Vthomley) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 02:36 pm:

Clint,

That is exactly the style hitch I have, or have a few of... See the For Sale section of this website.

This hitch bolts to the top 2 bolts on the transmission rear and also 2 of the 3 bolts that hold on the actual Cub hitch.

Tip your tractor forward, take out the top 2 bolts, then take off the 3 bottom bolts and the Cub Cadet hitch. Then using one of the bolts from the top, you tighten it into the bottom middle hole. Next you use the longer bolts to secure this pulling hitch to the tranny. Make sure you have a lot of threads(long enough bolts) in all 4 holes to secure this to the transmission. Tractor pulling puts a lot more stress on these. I used grade 5 bolts that were probably 1 1/4 inch long(I don't remember the lenght). Just make sure they are at least as long as the bolts from the Cub Cadet hitch and that they are grade 5 or grade 8.

I tip the tractor forward to help not have a leak when I take off the Cub Hitch. I normally do this by backing it up the ramps onto my trailer.

By Dennis Frisk (Dfrisk) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 08:24 am:

CLINT - Do a search on Midwest Supercub. They sell proven adj. hitches ready to bolt onto any CC. LOTS of other good info in their on-line catalog also.

By clint Arnold (Carnold) on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 08:49 pm:

im lookin to hitch to make a hitch like this because of how easy it will be to build but i am not sure how i should mount it on my tractor

By clint Arnold (Carnold) on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 08:36 pm:

thanks for the awnser and im getting persuaded to make an ajustable by everyone i ask. ill get pictures as soon as i can

By Vincent Thomley (Vthomley) on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 11:49 am:

Clint,to be commpetitve you will need an adjustable hitch. You always want the hitch height to be as high as allowable. I pulled with a stock hitch, then got an adjustable and there is a huge difference in the pulling ability.

I know a guy who has a couple pulling hitches he(me) can part with. Shoot me an email.

Also we like pictures!

By clint Arnold (Carnold) on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 11:33 am:

i just recently finished my puller and was unsure on how i should make the hitch i dont really want to make a ajustable, and would like to use a stock hitch if at all possible. thanks

By Evan Wank (Ewank) on Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 01:15 pm:

pictures from a recent pull

http://www.crawfordcountypost.com/NEWS-GardenTractorPull.html