Series II crank? Yes. Series I, no.
Original, 582, 682, 782, 782D, 1872 My Cub Site has moved...bookmark the new site!
Can I put a KT17 crank in my M18? P.O. cut crank off for a different app.
Thanks Jed
1650, 149, original
Does anyoen know of a pulling club or event in the Chicago suburbs?
Lucus,
Right now MWSC's website is down, but once its back up you can see & buy these there as well... But until then go here http://www.zkbrmachine.com/Clutch_Parts.html to view these aluminum clutch plates.
Could somwon post some pics of an allumium clutch and where I can get one ?
Experiance is when you read the fine print.
I been poking around for a taller tire for my 12" wide rims. I've found some 28" but when I talked to the factory guy he said that was on a 7" wide rim. Back to the drawing board.
Breaking Driveshaft Rollpin.
Upgraded to Aluminum clutch & Stainless steel shaft with coupling into creeper gear. The first pin in the coupling kept working out. So I tack welded the ends of the pins just to put a wide spot on the ends. It lasted longer but then sheared both ends with center still in shaft.
It looks as if the coupling and the driveshaft have a slight angle differance. Measured about an 1/16" wider at spring end, 4.5" from coupling. Using the plane surface of both.
Thanks Gary C.
More tire info.
I have learned today that Titan Tire accquired all the assets including the molds of the Denman Tire corporation I was so proud for a few months back. No word yet from the sales dept if they are going to reproduce the 26x12x12 ditch digger.
But searching through the Titan Corp catalog I found the Titan Tru Power is still available in our size and I was really excited to find the Goodyear Super Terra Grip HF-2 still being made by Titan. I have word out at a local tire OTR dealer for pricing. But looks like we may not be S.O.L. just yet.
So far still available are:
Titan Tru Power
Taylor Industrial Trencher RG
Taylor Industrial Stomper
Goodyear Super Terra Grip HF-2
Carlisle Tru Power
Vogel Manufacturing TT
Duro AG
Cheng Shin
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
In my on-going search for a new dependable supply of 26x12x12 tires, I was shown these by a good friend (who only lurks here...)
http://www.taylorindustrialtires.com/Construction_Trencher_Tires.html
Unfortunately they are only available in 8 ply. But there is alot of rubber there and most of us don't need tires that will wrinkle the side walls.
There are also a few left here...
http://www.smalltires.com/store.cfm?action=Products&subaction=List&StartRow=1&CategoryId=da3bdecf-8106-4084-885a-f36b5eed6e13&Size=12&TotalSize=26-12.00-12
And that's for clarifying the axle comparison. I knew there was a catch in there. It looks like I really lucked out with my new puller chassis, It has the later fine spline/2 piece carrier with octagon tubes! but I plan to run a spool. So they might be for sale soon.
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
Alot of clubs don't allow a "locked" rearend in stock classes. Also, there is two sizes of fine spline axles. The early ones are one inch and fit into the older axle tubes without any mods. You can tell the difference by which axle they came out off. The smaller ones were in octagon shaped tubes while the big ones were in round tubes. The splined part is the same size on both. The larger ones "bell" out and get larger just past the splines.
Are you running the old style coarse spline axles and carrier? Or the later style fine spline axles and 2 piece carrier?
The later 2 piece is the way to go. And the added strength of the fine spline axles nevers hurts. If I remember correctly the major difference is the axels bearings at the end of the tube. The old ones are 1" and the later are 30mm, requiring a bit of machining to get in the bigger metric bearings.
I believe you may be able to switch the spider gears to run the old axles with the later carrier.
My opinion is to just find run a spool. Midwest supercub sells a steel spool and axel kit for $330. I bet you won't break that.
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
My sons 128 with 16hp and 18hp cam has broke 2 carriers in less than 20 hooks, looking for any tips to make the next carrier last a while. Thanks Jed
1650, 149, original
Not to give out any great ideas... But one could use a snow mobile style torque convertor (belt drive) in place of the drop down belt drive to the jack shaft on an Original. The torque convertor varies the pulley sizes based on RPM and wheel speed. It would keep the engine right in its power band and never bog down at the end of the run.
The only limit being belt traction of the convertor itself.... But snow mobiles can run 100+hp so finding one that can hold less than 50hp should be easy.
No one has yet to ever run one in our club, but we are not opposed to it. If one could figure it out and tuned right. It would be cool to see. We keep it simple and cheap. We had a great time friday night, check back in this week for pictures and videos. 4 new tractors this season.
And BTW... if you read the fine print. It's not limited to 16hp. It's limited to 16hp OEM rated blocks. It would be silly to try and govern a hp catagory. Most guys are in the 20-30 range. And we limit to 8hp blocks on the small end because the performance parts aren't there. It takes real creativity to get them to run with the 16's. And they do. Our last 2 tractors in the heavy 1200lb pull off was a w/b cub with a K181 and a full custom tractor with a twin cylinder 16hp Briggs. They ended up less than 3 feet apart.
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
Reading Nic's notice of his upcoming pulls I went to his website and read the rules.
One Question? In what case would you utilize a torque converter on a pulling tractor? Specially when the classes are limited to 16hp?
Thanks ahead of time,
Matt
Good morning guys.
Just a quick mention that our clubs first pull is this friday night in New Melle, MO.
Check out our brand new website at :
http://www.pantherpulling.com
No event pictures yet. (we haven't had any yet.) But check back often for up dates.
Thanks guys
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
There will be a benefit pull on June
26th in King City Missouri. A time has not
been set but it will be in the evening.
Also there will be a silent auction. All
proceeds will be going to a life long
puller ,Jo Gawatz "Lil Sprout", who has
been diagnosed with cancer. Everyone
is invited to come and pull with
Northwest. For more information go to the Northwest Missouri Garden Tractor Pullers website. Or you can call me at 660-582-1521 Hope to see alot of new garden tractors. Brian http://www.nwmgtpa.net/
Jim, Thank you very much for the info.
Robert,
You can install it on the (-) side which goes to points. That'll work fine, no problem if it is a grounding type kill switch like MWSC sells.
Good morning everone. I have another newbie query I need help with. I have the kill switch mounted on my 100 but need to hook the wire to the coil. I have gotten different answers on what side, - or +, of the coil to hook to. Can anyone tell me which side is better ? Any help would be greatly appriciated.
Matthew - The original engine cradle and bushings will have to be removed. The bottom of the frame notched out and a new cradle made for the engine to set on. I can't remember for sure, but I think approx 1 3/8" below the bottom of the frame. We made a couple of "U" shaped cradles out of 1/4 X 3" flat strap for the engine to set on.
LD
Nic - Interesting Bar / Tube comparison.
To make it real short and quick ... Automotive torsion bars are solid , enough said , enough proof 
By Greg Lippert (Glippert) on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 01:33 pm: "I don't care what Digger says, KENtuckyKEN is a genius!"
What modifications are needed to repower a Wide Frame (Quietline Cub 1200) with a Kohler Command engine for a pulling application? Do the rubber motor mounts need to be changed? Does the engine need to be raised or lowered to keep the clutch from binding?
Any information would be great…
Thanks in advance.
Does anyone know where I could go to get my engine bored out at. I live in baltimore ohio and I am trying to find somewhere in central ohio that I can get my engine bored out and a new piston and a new rod.
I think I'll just keep my MWSC 5-puck clutch with the 5/8" solid shaft and pillow block bearing. If it could handle the twin engine half-pint it ought to handle anything my single twin will do to it.
BTW, a 5/8" solid bar does have .307 sq in of surface area.
but t 1" tube with .10 wall thickness only has .282 sq in of surface area. So I think your math is off.
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
I just picked up a stens .020 over piston and rings for my K301 for CC classics for less than $100.
but thats cast. nothing worth throwing power at.
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
Ok, so the solid bar vs. tube question was getting to me. So I walked down the hall to the stress dept. here at my work. (we design freight railcars…)
The question I asked was this:
Given a solid bar and a tube both with an O.D. of 5/8” and the tube having an I.D. of ½”, which one will handle more torque and why. The answer is the solid bar will always handle more torque.
So I showed them the example of the 16” dia shaft with and without the 3” hole down the middle. They said the hole was drilled to increase rigidity. A solid shaft of any significant length will start to bow in the middle due to its weight and begin to “throw” that weight as it begin to rotate becoming worse with increasing RPM. But a tube is much lighter (and mathematically stiffer) and won’t bow in the middle. But has a lower torsion rating. So they didn’t bore a hole down the middle to increase its torsion capability (they actually lowered it) they did it to increase the fatigue life of the shaft and the bearings holding it.
So if you want to retain the torsion rating (torque tolerance) of the solid shaft when replacing it with a tube, you have to increase the diameter of the tube. But just replacing a 5/8” solid bar with a 5/8” tube, the tube is actually MORE likely to twist off under high torsion loads but much LESS likely to deflect in the middle.
So if you want to keep that torsion rating of your OEM 5/8” shaft but lower your deflection by using a tube, you’ll need to use a tube with a 1.25” OD and .125 wall. (that will also retains most of the shear force of the solid bar.)
Oh, and using a tube of equivalent torsion rating WILL in fact transmit more power to the rear end because less energy is lost vs. the “wobbling” that occurs with a solid shaft. But giving we are talking about an 18” shaft what weights relatively very little. The difference in the fractions of percentages!
Most guys have just avoided the tube by using the bearing in the middle of the driveshaft to minimize the “wobble” and increase the fatigue life while retaining the torsion rating.
But tubes now need to consider the buckling forces, and that would take them all day…
See, isn’t science FUN!!
I can get all the equations we used it what me to back up those claims….
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
NIC - The 5/8" dia solid driveshaft has about 3/10ths square inches of steel surface area. SPREAD that out into a tube 1/10th inch thick and 1 in. diameter and THAT will have much more torque transmitting capability than the 5/8" solid shaft.
Since the clutch & reduction housing both need 5/8" dia on each end, maybe something like a 1-1/2" OD by 1/2" ID seamless tube could be made into a heavy-duty driveshaft, counterbore and press in the 5/8" shafts & cross drill, then plug weld the stub shafts into each end.
Problem I've ALWAYS had with GD CC's is the back end of the driveshaft wallowing out the hole where the spirol pin attaches the solid shaft to the back coupler. Anything over 10 HP wallows the hole out in 500-700 hours, 7 & 8 HP will run for thousands of hours. I've got about 150 hours on my MWSC 4140 driveshaft now, but they've all be easy hours.
Neatest driveshaft I've ever seen was in an early 90's C1500 4.3L V-6 5-speed Chevy pickup. For some reason it came from the factory with a carbon fiber DS. Bonded to forged alum. yokes. Bet the whole thing didn't weigh five pounds.
NIC - I suppose if Richard loaded his NQSP-required fire extinguisher with NOS the safety techs would find it wouldn't they!?!?!? I seem to remember my +.010" O/S Kohler piston for my K321 costing over $100 five-six yrs ago. Gasket & seal kit would probably eat up the last of his budget.
richard,
assuming you have a stock engine. I'd say bore it to your clubs maximum allowance, buy a new piston to fit it and have the machine shop shave the head to get you in the 10-12 compression ratio. But doing all that will need more timing to really see a difference. And doing that with points is hard.
Oh, and running race gas will let you pull more timing with out detonationg that new piston. But again... $$$
But you did say "gain hp immensily."
Then again, you could always go the simple route and just buy a bigger engine.
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
Dennis,
So your telling me at some power level I should replace my solid steel driveshaft with a 5/8" tube?
That does make sense to me. In my alter-ego racecar builder life, we put literally hundreds of HP through thin wall aluminum driveshafts. And even thinner carbon fiber wrapped ones. (Think carbon wrapped soda can!)
but those all have welded forged ends to secure the u-joint to. how do I avoid ripping or wobbling out a tube? I would think welding a solid piece at the ends would only move the twist/shear point to the soild piece.
And... Is anyone currently selling a tube style driveshaft for our little pullers or are they all custom built?
Collecting K181's: running or not. Finally got my 82 series roller. Ready to go pulling.
Does any one know what I could do with my tractor for $220 to gain hp immensily.
DAVE - Depending on over-all tube diameter & wall thickness, and material, a solid drive shaft won't come CLOSE to transmitting the torque a tube will. I can definetly see a 5/8" dia solid shaft turning into a pretzel at some of the HP levels pullers are getting now.
I didn't get NEAR enough meaty engineering courses in college to figure out the math, BUT, when I was buying automobile shredder rotor shafts, the BIGGEST shredder rotor we made had the smallest shaft, 16" in dia and had a 3" dia hole trepanned thru it. Every other rotor depending on style and brand of mill it went into had a solid 16" or 20" dia ahaft. My Engineer said that little 3" dia hole in the big mill's shaft increased it's torque capability a LOT. Something about "not concentrating forces at a single point in the center of the shaft".
To describe what these rotors looked like, Imagine a hammermill feed grinder or #59M shredder with the rotor six to eight FEET in diameter, nine FEET wide. Depending on size & model just the bare rotor & shaft weighed 63,000 to 82,000 pounds without ANY wear parts installed. Wear parts like spider caps, hammers, hammer pins, and pin protectors could easily add another 15,000 to 30,000+ pounds. Tie one onto a 4000 to 7000 HP elec. motor and a full size automobile is reduced to softball sized pieces in 20-30 seconds. One rotor we built was sent to Detroit to shred a MOUNTAIN of old Detroit city diesel bus engines. Company is still located in Moline, just east of the LeClair Hotel downtown about a block, you can see the place from I-74.
Dennis, a guy showed me once how much the drive shaft deflects at speed under power. Made me think the bearing was supporting the drive shaft.
DAVE - That pillow block is to prevent accelerated wear on the needle bearing on the back side of the reduction housing pinion. With the different color die springs used on the engine clutches all that force is pushed back into that small needle bearing. The pillow block bearing is used to absorb that force.
I looked in my older MWSC catalog at the NQSP rules and saw a clutch/flywheel cover of 1/8" steel or 3/16" alum. was a general requirement, along with a cover on the right side of the engine block with the same thickness of mat'l. Rules were for 5-2008 to 4-2009.
Didn't see any kind of RPM limit for any of the classes listed. I know I don't want to be around a stock 40 yr old cast iron flywheel at anything over 4000 RPM. If it broke it could cut a Cubbie in two!
IH Cub Cadet Pulling and Hot Rodding
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